General Electric U34CH & Dieseliner Coaches by Pullman Standard

[cnwfan]

As I was reading through your notes about getting the blue just right, it reminded me of this exchange in the movie Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (Cary Grant, Myrna Loy, 1948 by RKO Pictures). The wife, Muriel Blanding, is telling the painter what colors to use when painting various parts of the house.

Muriel Blandings: I want it to be a soft green, not as blue-green as a robin's egg, but not as yellow-green as daffodil buds. Now, the only sample I could get is a little too yellow, but don't let whoever does it go to the other extreme and get it too blue. It should just be a sort of grayish-yellow-green. Now, the dining room. I'd like yellow. Not just yellow; a very gay yellow. Something bright and sunshine-y. I tell you, Mr. PeDelford, if you'll send one of your men to the grocer for a pound of their best butter, and match that exactly, you can't go wrong! Now, this is the paper we're going to use in the hall. It's flowered, but I don't want the ceiling to match any of the colors of the flowers. There's some little dots in the background, and it's these dots I want you to match. Not the little greenish dot near the hollyhock leaf, but the little bluish dot between the rosebud and the delphinium blossom. Is that clear? Now the kitchen is to be white. Not a cold, antiseptic hospital white. A little warmer, but still, not to suggest any other color but white. Now for the powder room - in here - I want you to match this thread, and don't lose it. It's the only spool I have and I had an awful time finding it! As you can see, it's practically an apple red. Somewhere between a healthy winesap and an unripened Jonathan.

Mr. PeDelford: You got that Charlie?

Charlie, Painter: Red, green, blue, yellow, white.

Mr. PeDelford: Check.

[minerman146]

Yes, just like that. I can still hear Myrna Loy's " mid-atlantic English" reading those lines. Excellent Post cnwfan!

[minerman146]

Lets talk about the NJT Coaches for a minute and do an inventory of what will be released (Non-ELNJDOT)

This is a list I sent to Cesar

Cab Car
1. Cab Car: High Door - Big Black Stripe, NJT Disco Logo on Sides - NJTRANSIT on the Cab
2. Cab Car Low Door - Blue and Red Stripe NJT Logo (Small) on sides - No logo on the Cab ( IN PROCESS ) (Note see 1985 picture)
3. Cab Car Low Door - Big Black Stripe, NJT Disco Logo on Sides - NJTRANSIT on the Cab (Optional, though may be requested)

Coach
1. High Door - Big Black Stripe, NJT Disco Logo on Sides (DONE)
2. Low Door - Big Black Stripe, NJT Disco Logo on Sides (Done)
3. Low Door - Blue and Red Stripe NJT Logo (Small) on sides (In Process)

EL - NJDOT
Cab Car Low Door - Blue and Red Stripe
Coach Low Door - Blue and Red Stripe

Note the Tiger Stipe Cab is not there. Hey Openrailler, can you send me of list of 1. # of Cab Cars 2. Their numbers 3. When (what year they were painted)
Note 2. Player controlled traps broke the door animations - now that has to be fixed!
Note 3. Target for release is March 2020
Note 4. EL NJ Dot not likely to make the release - waiting for NS to respond.

[minerman146]

Post 2 the fun stuff with pictures.

As I mentioned a few posts ago, I was testing the cab cars with the F40PH-2CAT and the GP40PH-2B and this is how I tested them:

- Enter Driver Mode for Engine
- Test Reverser
- Test Throttle
- Test Brakes
Then switch to trailing unit (cab or Engine) and repeat test.
Then I Entered Driver Mode for the Cab
I did have 3 faults. When going from the Cab Driver to either the F40PH-2CAT or the GP40PH-2B, the engine would shutdown, then I would start the engine and it worked normally. On the F40PH-2CAT when you switch to the engine from the cab you cant see amps or speed in the HUD. I dont know if this can be fixed, but i reported my findings.

I also took a snapshot of them lined up and you can see some (2) new little details that we put in on the exterior.

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Also, I requested and got a "middle' view to be added to the U34CH cab so you could see the panel and more easily to turn the switches. There is currently one animation, that when you go into passenger mode -- all the correct breakers are flipped. Oh and the indicator lights illuminate correctly when HEP is enabled. AND to turn on the the Red Maker light on the engine, you have to toggle it here. Little stuff to add interest.

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And since we were taking about HIGH and LOW doors - I thought it would be good to put a picture in so you can see the high doors at last. I can also talk about the coloring on the coaches. As far as I know there is no known texture for 100 grit Horizontal Grain Brushed Aluminum that gets oxidized, so we have to do the best we can. But you can see the color variations between the roof, sides, doors and not pictured the car ends. He also darkened it a bit as we were too white previously.

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And for our final glam shot - we are in Fairlawn, NJ at 230pm in Winter. The blue looks great and is doing what I want it to with the light and shadow.

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Thats it for now!

[cnwfan]

Cesar might want to look into Substance Painter for the brushed aluminum. They are have a brushed aluminum procedural material that can be tweaked in so many ways. Procedural dirt and grime generators can then be layered on top of the aluminum to get "that look". Substance has quickly become the standard for game studios and independent artists. There are some considerations when using Substance for our sim, but the results are worth it... at least in my opinion.

Another source for textures I use for my Blender work is poliigon.com. The site is run by YouTuber Blender Guru, and it specializes in textures used for architectural visualizations. They have a large number of metal textures. Maybe there is one that will get Cesar close, and with a little grunge work, will get texture you need. Hope all this helps.

[BNSFdude]

Before jumping into Substance or Quixel, I'd say starting off with normals, AO bake, and a proper specular map would be a good place to start. It'll make them not look quite like a model made for Team Fortress 2.

If I may, the scaling of the labels, gauges, indicator panels for HEP, and speedometer in the cab are far too small,, and he can certainly afford to increase the texel density and overall resolution so they're not as crunchy to look at and are readable.

I prefer running no-HUD, and with all of the gauges being nearly unreadable, it would be nigh impossible gauging (ha) from the current WIP screenshots.

Not that my critical opinion matters on this forum, which is why I've been biting my tongue, but I'd like to at least give it a bit of a push in a better direction before it's considered done.

[minerman146]

Anthony, I have loads of respect for you and cnwfan. You guys are in my thoughts as I make recommendations. I can say we have had several improvements with you in mind. Your both constructive, I will continue to try and thread the needle with graphic improvements.

*Note regarding comments and constructive criticism - I know you guys, I know how you write and I am a big boy. I take ALL recommendations seriously and I will follow up if its successful or not. I can also read between the lines, I can tell if you think something is odd - so be subtle on this thread. if you have a need to vent about the model. Let me have it on PM. Last, ALL comments have equal weight to me. So, no gun fights on thread!

Suffice to say there are certain limitations in the rendering that have been a challenge to overcome. Also, I avoid distracting by adding new tasks, while we are engaged in other functionality of the model.

Today's work is on the Bombardier controller in the 1983/87 comet 1 build and rebuild. This was also an expected add on which was prepared for.

Lastly, I am writing here about the inner workings of putting together a model form the standpoint of a spectator. I have been very active - 2 - 3 times a day, reviewing either images, model changes, responding to questions, and pointing out both the good and the areas that need revision. I am embarrassed that 3 working days were spent on what BLUE to use and that is on me. I hope you all find this to be an interesting read!

[cnwfan]

Before jumping into Substance or Quixel, I'd say starting off with normals, AO bake, and a proper specular map would be a good place to start. It'll make them not look quite like a model made for Team Fortress 2.

Agreed... getting good maps is so important to eliminating a "flat look" to textures. Our eyes capture those subtle changes that good maps induce in a texture.

In regard to Substance, yes... if you allow yourself to get carried away, your textures can go way overboard very quickly. And you then get that "shoot-n-up" game look. But the thing I find most valuable is the non-destructive procedural workflow by which textures are created. With procedural, I'm not stuck with the limitations of a starting texture, as I'm literally building the texture from ground up. This has allowed me to create textures with a look that is just not available in the various texture websites.

Substance does have a steep learning curve. It looks like this project is pretty far along, so I'm not sure I would hold up production to learn a new toolset. Maybe once this project is done, and Cesar has some downtime, then maybe that is the point he researches / tries out other options. I come from the aspect as one can never have too many tools in his "Binford" toolbox.

[minerman146]

Very true Cnwfan - at the opportune moment I will pass along your links regarding texture. I also need to get home hi resolution images of the coach bodies, review them and see what can be done. to Home Improvement!

[minerman146]

I have a little something to post regarding progress. Last night I received Revision #8, now the unit has interior and exterior sounds, horn and bell. I have to say the exterior sounds are exceptional ( the coaches rolling, and the Doppler effect with the horn). A long standing issue with the Cab Car, where the player would get an "Out of Fuel" message when spawning in a Quick Drive has been resolved. Now I can test FPS on the Bergen with AI (So far so good). We have working doors and a trap animation for high platforms (very nice). The seats in the cab car are animated and fold up or down in both the Engineer and Fireman's position. Also, when spawning, and in Push or Pull mode, when the headlights of the forward unit are one, the trailing unit has a red light.

I will skip posting the long list of corrections and fixed that need to be done. I am fine tooth combing the units visually, testing animation function, and road testing in all configurations of coaches, cab cars and Engines. Actually I changed my mind. Perhaps you will find how I communicating issues I find to be interesting.

This I am about to send off.
1. Cab Car
-(All) Forward Window tinting reduce 75%
-B Side (ALL) has extra vestibule door - remove
- Door Close Button is green when doors open or closed (RED when Open - I guess!)
-(Hi-door) Reverser Key is opposite position. When key is at F, it is in reverse on HUD, train goes correctly in reverse.
- (Hi-door) Passenger View in third position facing the B side: Player can see through coach (refer to picture 20200201125718_1)
- (All) The engine brake sticks on 17% in HUD, you have keep dragging the mouse to get past this position.
- (All) The engine brake sticks on 17% 46% when using mouse and using keyboard control going both up and down.
- (ALL) Frequent wheel slip when accelerating from stop using 75% throttle and above.
- (ALL) In version 8 braking force has been reduced I now have to use both engine and train brake to stop a train where I didn't before, and I have to use 100% train and 95% Engine to stop. (Similar in U34CH)

2. Coaches
- (All) when loading or unloaded passengers go through car. All Cars should be codes as an entrance and exit. (refer to picture 20200201130035_1)
- Remove NJDOT logos on COMET 1 and replace with NJT Logo on Cab and Coaches (refer to picture Comet1_1985) We can work on the EL-NJDOT later. I want you to release this paint scheme as its accurate as the original version.


I of course have to test on the Morristown Line. I run the train, make stops, load and unload passengers and report my findings.
Pictures!

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These are all cherry picked - I can do better with the lighting. I have to say - externally - these look very good.

Lastly, it takes work to dutifully check for issues and report them. Its tedious and requires patience. It also demands dedication to document and follow up. I now can see first hand the amount of effort that goes in to just a single locomotive - its jaw dropping when you think about it. So, to all developers and to DTM, of course, for taking this project on!

[buzz456]

We'll just all hope and pray that he doesn't shoot himself before this is over.
In the words of a famous or infamous route builder "Carry on."

[minerman146]

Believe me, its painful to find stuff, test and to report. But the pain now is better than reading later here or on steam or on facebook about what is not working or wrong. I have been reading peoples comments on models for 6 years - so I know what its like.

I do check in on the developer every day to makes sure he is still alive. So far - so good!

[minerman146]

I have to admit - I had a bit of a freak-out yesterday, when I was informed that the whole package (sans the EL-NJDOT) was going to DTG on Monday for testing!
Say What?

What a difference 24 hours makes. I have been onlne since 11am testing iterations #9, #10 and #11, troubleshooting, taking pictures and sending the results back. Then I get 4 scenarios to test on on the NJCL Morristown Line, which I just wrapped up about 45 minutes ago. I got some pictures below. I am not exactly pleased that that the EL-NJDOT is in legal limbo - waiting for Norfolk Southern approval, but I will deal with the wait.

The amount of work that goes into a single model is mind boggling to me. As you know, function, details and graphic quality are the holy trinity. Watching the sausage being made is a unnerving experience. At some points, the units looked like they needed a lot of help. The fixes made a big difference. I did make texture and paint recommendations, I would say we got about half-way where I wanted to go. Given the other critical issues, I haven't pushed any harder. I do believe there is time to revisit texturing before release. When it it gets to a point where I am comfortable with the results I will post the images.

I want to give credit where credit is due. Cesar listens, asks great questions and works hard. Some of the details capture what this really was and I am pleased with that. Some of the details - fixes I requested weeks ago - suddenly popped up as fixed today. That reminds me - Openrailer thanks for listening and I got some fonts that are authentic to the EL and very close to what was used on the cabs an number boards. You will only notice if you magnify the real life images and compare against the model.

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(I have no idea what the vertical pipes are near the couplers -I report it* update THAT is the bottom of a palisades fence and shows how paranoid I am)

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Its the last two pictures that are the point of me posting. In previous images, you noticed the coaches with the NJDOT logo. There is supposed to be an EL on the B end, but since no approval it didnt go on. I found out these were to be submitted for release! I have ONE picture that shows the the graphic you see on the cab car. Before many of these cars were refurbed in 1987, they had an intermediate design that appeared some time after 1978. The EL and NJDOT graphics were removed and replace the NJT logo. What they left was the original Blue with Red stripe. For the model this is important, as this was the last time the cab cars had the original control stand - which I went nuts over to reproduce. This also adds visual variety to the model and can pair with either U34CH. I do want to point out a small detail - the windows, On the cab car you will notice a vertical line on the coach windows - that is a sash believe it or not that was called for in the original spec. As far as I know, these were non-functioning either by design or by application, but its there. The coach behind it is a 1987 rebuild, the windows were replaced an so no sash after 1987. This shows that the information I have sent was used and that makes me happy. What I like that is happening here, is that even though we have the subsequent Bombardier and Alstom iterations of the original design, these look and feel different. Seeing them run on the Morristown line and the Bergen brings one back 20, 30 and even almost 50 years ago. The star of the show - that U34CH - the power of it. I found out 3300 HP is needed when going to Summit and Dover. And I was going waaaay over 75 on the way to Newark with this thing... niiiiice!

Thats it for tonight ...


HEP is still outstanding - My punch list from yesterday is done, we have working scenarios and sound. Whats left is tuning the graphics and the textures. So, we are in a much better place now.

[NorfolkNE]

Everything looks great and I'm very excited to see this released eventually. I'm sure its been said before, but you and Cesar are doing amazing work going the extra mile(s) to make this stuff look and operate to their best.

[minerman146]

There are several things that are difficult when doing each of these posts. The first is not to use first person all the time. Being involved closely, and personally lends itself the use of "I" and me. The second part is what place that this researcher and muse has in the project. The last is that of personal accountability in what you will see and experience when you finally ride this model for the first time. And so it is very hard to say we when talking about this. I did not build it, paint it, program it, or animate it, that Cesar did. He did the difficult part, the monotonous parts and the frustrating parts. We did do this together in our different roles - the model will be a reflection of this collaboration.

With that said, I am pleased to report that HEP is fully functional in this vehicle. The engine loudly maintains its 1000 rpm throughout as the amperage steps up through each notch. Track resistance causes the Amperage to deplete, and you can see that.

20200206212627_1.jpg

Furthermore, Engine Control Switch is an integral component. Before your start your run you have to move the switch from standby to either the passenger or freight mode. I just notice you have to do this when your starting off with Cab Car foward. (might be an issue, might not)

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In Standby the engine runs at 400 rpm to power the coaches and does not propel the car. It was standard practice to leave the units over night or when stationary for any period of time, such as before departure in Hoboken.

In Freight mode there is the normal behavior we see in Diesel-Electric locomotives. Increase throttle - increase amps

But the passenger mode is gratifying. Starting from 400 rpm the engine builds in rpm, the HEP indicators illuminate and, within 15 seconds (thank you Dad!) you reach an almost deafening 1000 rpm. Moving the throttle forward incrementally increases the amperage with each step up. At a constant throttle application you can observe the resistance of inclines lowering the amps. This really makes the model. I am very pleased and I am almost certain that you will find the driving experience to be something new in all of its 1960's technological glory.

Next up I will go over the models in and out and discuss them a bit.

Last up is a glamour shot at Waldwick with the new numbering that was just updated yesterday. You also might be able to pick up on some the light weathering.

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And just one more of my 'baby'.

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