Getting Out Of Memory Error For Preview Of A Wagon Blueprint

[TheKman]

Had something happen while doing a wagon blueprint I have never encountered before..... When I went to preview the car, I got a out of memory error. I was able to export it, but when placing it on the track in the sim I got the same error report.
I didn't do the section for the coupling pivots and reciving points. I was going to do that last. Dev docs say to use the preview window so I decided to get the rest done, preview the car and do the couplings. Not sure if that is causing the error. Can I do a preview of the car when I get to the front and rear coupling section of the blueprint? Two people I PM last couple of weeks said they thought it didn't matter.

3DC has not been my friend when it comes to cars. Cars are new territory for me. I have talked about this a number of times now. My TOFC car has missing pieces. The first attempt with my boxcar, the car was invisible. Second time I get the memory error. Despite setbacks, I'm determined to figure it out and get a working car into the sim.

My understanding of making the blueprint is a lot clearer now, but no doubt I may have made mistakes.

I have enclosed the .xmls for the car, the two bogeys, and the couplers along with a screenshot from 3DC on how the groups look.

Thanks.

[cnwfan]

One thing I see is that group 1_100_Wheel22 should be 1_0100_Wheel22. Not sure if that is going to make a difference, but it is worth a try.

[GreatNortherner]

Hi,

I take it you are using the Wizard to export this? The group names in your hierarchy follow the MSTS naming convention. I'm not using the Wizard myself so my knowledge of it is limited and I can't tell if there may be an issue with the group names you're using and how that relates to the wizard.

I would say there is one clear issue with that hierarchy in that the wheels groups are not children of the bogie groups -- and there appears to be only one set of wheel groups, but there needs to be one for each bogie. In RW naming, the trucks/wheels hierarchy *must* look like this:
1_####_bo01
1_####_bo01wh01
1_####_bo01wh02
1_####_bo02
1_####_bo02wh01
1_####_bo02wh02
And however that translates into "Wizard naming".

You might also want to check if the functional group names (like wagon, bo##, bo##wh##) from your project get translated into RW naming convention correctly:
1_0500_main => 1_0500_wagon
Bogie and wheels -- see above

I'd hazard a guess that one of these two areas might be where the culprit is.

There are also some "not a bug, but could be better" things in that hierarchy: The bogie group doesn't have a LOD distance assigned, even though such a small part probably can't be seen farther than 200 m away. You can also improve the model's performance by combining parts that have the same LOD distance. All these different parts of 1_0100_ and 1_0300_ are really only needed if you need them to be functional (i.e., they are a defined part of the RW hierarchy like truck or wheels, or they are to be animated). Other than that, you can put all these objects into single 1_0100_smallparts and another 1_0300_mediumparts groups and make the renderer's life a bit easier.

A couple of things stand out in your blueprints:

wagon blueprint:
- front and back BogeyPivotX value is the same -- must be negative for front (and those values must be identical to the corresponding group offsets from 0,0,0 in your model)
- couplers position matrix is not set up (but that shouldn't cause the crash, just make it imposssible to couple the cars)

Bogey blueprint
- the Geometry entry is wrong and a possible source for the crash -- confusingly, no IGS gets referenced here, but instead the group name of the truck in your model (i.e., "bo01" and "bo02" -- always without distance prefixes, no matter what they are like in your export)
- correspondingly, bo##wh## are what needs to be filled into the "Node id" fields in the "S axle" pulldown menus -- again with correct offset data or the wheels won't animate -- "Animation id" field should be left blank, wheels and trucks get animated at runtime!
- also note that trucks and wheels *must* be part of the wagon .igs file, it is not possible to use additional shape files for functional parts in RW
- wheel gauge might be wrong -- it's 1.435 for standard gauge

[TheKman]

Hi,

I take it you are using the Wizard to export this? The group names in your hierarchy follow the MSTS naming convention. I'm not using the Wizard myself so my knowledge of it is limited and I can't tell if there may be an issue with the group names you're using and how that relates to the wizard.

I would say there is one clear issue with that hierarchy in that the wheels groups are not children of the bogie groups -- and there appears to be only one set of wheel groups, but there needs to be one for each bogie. In RW naming, the trucks/wheels hierarchy *must* look like this:
1_####_bo01
1_####_bo01wh01
1_####_bo01wh02
1_####_bo02
1_####_bo02wh01
1_####_bo02wh02
And however that translates into "Wizard naming".

You might also want to check if the functional group names (like wagon, bo##, bo##wh##) from your project get translated into RW naming convention correctly:
1_0500_main => 1_0500_wagon
Bogie and wheels -- see above

I'd hazard a guess that one of these two areas might be where the culprit is.

There are also some "not a bug, but could be better" things in that hierarchy: The bogie group doesn't have a LOD distance assigned, even though such a small part probably can't be seen farther than 200 m away. You can also improve the model's performance by combining parts that have the same LOD distance. All these different parts of 1_0100_ and 1_0300_ are really only needed if you need them to be functional (i.e., they are a defined part of the RW hierarchy like truck or wheels, or they are to be animated). Other than that, you can put all these objects into single 1_0100_smallparts and another 1_0300_mediumparts groups and make the renderer's life a bit easier.

A couple of things stand out in your blueprints:

wagon blueprint:
- front and back BogeyPivotX value is the same -- must be negative for front (and those values must be identical to the corresponding group offsets from 0,0,0 in your model)
- couplers position matrix is not set up (but that shouldn't cause the crash, just make it imposssible to couple the cars)

Bogey blueprint
- the Geometry entry is wrong and a possible source for the crash -- confusingly, no IGS gets referenced here, but instead the group name of the truck in your model (i.e., "bo01" and "bo02" -- always without distance prefixes, no matter what they are like in your export)
- correspondingly, bo##wh## are what needs to be filled into the "Node id" fields in the "S axle" pulldown menus -- again with correct offset data or the wheels won't animate -- "Animation id" field should be left blank, wheels and trucks get animated at runtime!
- also note that trucks and wheels *must* be part of the wagon .igs file, it is not possible to use additional shape files for functional parts in RW
- wheel gauge might be wrong -- it's 1.435 for standard gauge

Yes I did use the wizard. To date no one had said to either use the wizard or do straight export. Papa Express tutorial for the locomotive says do a straight export. A 3DC doc I found recently says if using 3DC 9.3 or higher you must use the wizard. No one has committed that either are OK or that a straight export is more ideal. Can't hurt to do a straight export. Either it works or I'm back at square one again.


LOD are still a bit of a mystery to me. But I understand what your saying about doing some regrouping of the 1_100 and 1_0300 LODS.

Bogey Pivot X mistake was a brain fart. I'm getting too old to be working past 1 AM. The whole Bogey blueprint went South on this one. I did one around a week and a half ago that Wayne Campbell said was OK based on reading the .xml. But I discovered with those bogeys that the wheels where not centered. Off by around 2 meters. So I had to fix all that and do a new blueprint.

Naming the bogeys I've gone back and fourth on unfortunately.... I first did it the way you described above then found some docs saying to name the wheels wheel 12, wheel 11 (front) wheel 21, wheel 22 (back). So I'll fix that one. No biggie.

Wheel gauge no issue to fix. I went by what the model was and I'm not sure I measured the correct item. I'll change it to 1.435.

I did assign a shader, but I'm sure now I did that wrong. That info was right in front of my nose all this time. It was part of the Papa Express tutorials. So now I understand how to do that.

There was a link for using shaders on the Amabilis website, but it was a dead link. Got the 404 error. I've seen 3DC tutorials by Amabilis but those links are dead as well. 404 errors. Wish someone had those or knows of a site that might have them.

Thanks Michelle for the input. I learned some more today. I'll get it. I usually catch on to how to do something pretty fast with not many issues. But this is kicking my tushey.

[TheKman]

Well, the darn thing crashed when I tried a simple scenery blueprint.

Culprit turned out to be the main piece of the underframe. Somehow under the frame where hidden micro spec models of a bulkhead flat I have been working on. 6 of them. How they got there I have no clue.... I did grab the texture for the underframe from the folder containing the BH flat. Also explains why the there was a very high number of edges and faces when looking at the SU model info.

So, I deleted those flatcars and that fixed the issue. Exported OK as a scenery object, model all intact.

Still have to figure how to get the model to sit at ground level. Half the car was buried in the ground. OK for a building, just raise it up. But on a engine or wagon that doesn't work. Gotta figure out the gizmo doo-hickey. If it's not that I set so the car sets level on the ground, I need someone to tell me what's required to correct it.

[TheKman]

Boxcar back to being invisible in both the preview window in the blueprint editor and in the sim.

I found a tutorial in French I translated. Says if the bogeys where identified in the wrong order from what the model is when doing the blueprint the car will be invisible.

So does this mean on my model bogey 01 is really bogey 02 and 02 is in fact bogey 01? I reversed them?

[GreatNortherner]

So does this mean on my model bogey 01 is really bogey 02 and 02 is in fact bogey 01? I reversed them?

Possibly. Anything you enter into the blueprint that has a match in the shape file has to 100% identical -- node/group names, animated part names, and critically also dimensions like for example wheel/truck pivot offsets. Negative/positive values for the offsets also matter, what's negative in the model must be negative in the blueprint.

Also, make sure that all your functional node names (like bogie and wheels) match the RW naming convention. It *must* be "bo01" and not "bogey01", and "bo01wh01" and not "wheels01", etc., in the IGS. If you're in doubt that the exporter names them correctly, you can name the groups yourself in the hierarchy and use the correct group names from the start.

tl;dr: "Invisible model" happens to me all the time and it's usually fixed by checking and double checking the blueprint entries for consistency with the model.

Cheers,
Michael

[TheKman]

So does this mean on my model bogey 01 is really bogey 02 and 02 is in fact bogey 01? I reversed them?

Possibly. Anything you enter into the blueprint that has a match in the shape file has to 100% identical -- node/group names, animated part names, and critically also dimensions like for example wheel/truck pivot offsets. Negative/positive values for the offsets also matter, what's negative in the model must be negative in the blueprint.

Also, make sure that all your functional node names (like bogie and wheels) match the RW naming convention. It *must* be "bo01" and not "bogey01", and "bo01wh01" and not "wheels01", etc., in the IGS. If you're in doubt that the exporter names them correctly, you can name the groups yourself in the hierarchy and use the correct group names from the start.

tl;dr: "Invisible model" happens to me all the time and it's usually fixed by checking and double checking the blueprint entries for consistency with the model.

Cheers,
Michael

The same French tutorial shows a way to group it all so it give the names automatically. That might be "unique names" which I do use, but maybe doing that wrong as well.

[mrennie]

So does this mean on my model bogey 01 is really bogey 02 and 02 is in fact bogey 01? I reversed them?

Possibly. Anything you enter into the blueprint that has a match in the shape file has to 100% identical -- node/group names, animated part names, and critically also dimensions like for example wheel/truck pivot offsets. Negative/positive values for the offsets also matter, what's negative in the model must be negative in the blueprint.

Also, make sure that all your functional node names (like bogie and wheels) match the RW naming convention. It *must* be "bo01" and not "bogey01", and "bo01wh01" and not "wheels01", etc., in the IGS. If you're in doubt that the exporter names them correctly, you can name the groups yourself in the hierarchy and use the correct group names from the start.

tl;dr: "Invisible model" happens to me all the time and it's usually fixed by checking and double checking the blueprint entries for consistency with the model.

Cheers,
Michael

The same French tutorial shows a way to group it all so it give the names automatically. That might be "unique names" which I do use, but maybe doing that wrong as well.

In 3DC, "Create Unique Names" will make all the object names unique but it won't check the groups' names. One thing that will cause a model to be invisible is if there are any duplicate group names (such as "Main" in your example below ... note that "Main" and "1_0500_Main" are treated as the same name, i.e. "Main". Neither 3DC nor the Blueprint Editor's exporter will flag the duplicates as errors - it will simply create a model that won't render in-game. Btw, I'm using 3DC version 9.3 Build 1620.

[TheKman]

So does this mean on my model bogey 01 is really bogey 02 and 02 is in fact bogey 01? I reversed them?

Possibly. Anything you enter into the blueprint that has a match in the shape file has to 100% identical -- node/group names, animated part names, and critically also dimensions like for example wheel/truck pivot offsets. Negative/positive values for the offsets also matter, what's negative in the model must be negative in the blueprint.

Also, make sure that all your functional node names (like bogie and wheels) match the RW naming convention. It *must* be "bo01" and not "bogey01", and "bo01wh01" and not "wheels01", etc., in the IGS. If you're in doubt that the exporter names them correctly, you can name the groups yourself in the hierarchy and use the correct group names from the start.

tl;dr: "Invisible model" happens to me all the time and it's usually fixed by checking and double checking the blueprint entries for consistency with the model.

Cheers,
Michael

The same French tutorial shows a way to group it all so it give the names automatically. That might be "unique names" which I do use, but maybe doing that wrong as well.

That pic of the tree structure shows one jacked up tree. For kicks my friend fired up his 3d Max which he still has though he gave up on it long ago. The model showed numerous duplicate names. But according to Max, the wheels are on the 0,0,0 grid. I really couldn't tell in 3DC. So that being said, it was back to the drawing board. It has been run thru 3DC again and this time exported without using the wizard to avoid upsetting the named groups. It won't process thru the wizard unless one uses create unique names and that seems to jack up the group structure. I have never don a straight export, so I'll see what happens. I had to redo the bogeys in 3DC as well and re export. On top of that the bogey blueprint was jacked as well.

In 3DC, "Create Unique Names" will make all the object names unique but it won't check the groups' names. One thing that will cause a model to be invisible is if there are any duplicate group names (such as "Main" in your example below ... note that "Main" and "1_0500_Main" are treated as the same name, i.e. "Main". Neither 3DC nor the Blueprint Editor's exporter will flag the duplicates as errors - it will simply create a model that won't render in-game. Btw, I'm using 3DC version 9.3 Build 1620.

[TheKman]

More Twilight Zone.

The Sketchup models for the couplers were jacked with another weird instance of the BH flat again within each coupler just like on the underframe of the boxcar except just one model at it's regular size. Highlighting hidden geometry with the sketchup program showed a complete bulkhead flat car I made months ago. Again, I have no clue how it got there.

Things is this didn't reflect on the coupler info when exporting. It showed what was correct for each coupler.

So no doubt the coupler blueprint was jacked, thus the wagon blueprint as well maybe leading to a invisible car.

And I now I'm using 3ds Max and honestly, I understand it better. Confidence is high groups have been named correctly as well as being grouped correctly.

So new blueprints for the whole mess need to me made and from there I'll see what else blows up, or works for a change.

[TheKman]

I have made some progress with this boxcar. I'm back using 3DC by the way. Max was a no go.

It would appear that the reason it's invisable or I get the out of memory error is because of data entered into the fields other than the coupler, and bogey blueprint IDs and the Gemotry and collision IDs Another .xml enclosed as to what I ve done so far.

With just that data, the preview shows no errors and I can see the boxcar in the preview window now.

Now for some more questions. 4 pics enclosed.

Pic #1 This is what the car looks like upon the preview window loading up. All you can see is the roof.

Pic #2 The view after I raise the car up to ground level give or take.

Pic #3 The front end of the car is the brakewheel end. More easier to identify within 3DC.

Pic #4 When trying doing the front coupler pivot and reciving points the arrow is pointing towards the opposite end of the car, not towards the brakewheel end.

So, first off. The fact the car is bacally buried 99% into the ground and I have to raise it up, is it going to cause problems with the final results?
Can the arrow for the aligning the front coupler pivot and reciving points be flipped the other way so it points to the brakewheel end? If so, how is that done?

If I can't do that, does that men the brakewheel end of the car is considered the rear end?

Thanks

[TheKman]

Most of the battle has now be won.

First off, what is causing the out of memory error is the data for the train brake assembly. I just don't know how to set it up. I can start a blueprint for it, but I have no idea on where and how to fill in the fields. So I'll have to figure that out. So that info the blueprint has not been done.

Aside from that, I got a freight car!

Now the downside. In the sim the car is buried around 99% into the ground just like in the preview window so lifting it up in the preview window and saving didn't work.

The wheels must still not be on 0,0,0. Can this be fixed within the blueprint or do I need to figure how to do it correctly within 3DC? I have still not figured out how to do that in 3DC. The rest of my issues within 3DC I appaear to have solved.

[Chacal]

Why don't you look at the blueprint for a similar car that is working well, and copy its values?
Or even use this blueprint and replace its geometry with yours?
You don't need the blueprint editor, btw. You can manually edit a xml blueprint.

Also, are you following the dev docs? There's alot of info in there and it's mostly still relevant.

[TheKman]

use the blueprint and replace its geometry with yours?
You don't need the blueprint editor, btw. You can manually edit a xml blueprint.

Never thought of that. I just did that. Looks like I need to adjust either front and back pivot X, or maybe the front and rear coupling pivots. Perhaps both. Thanks for the suggestion. Best setup to date. Almost got it!