Q353 Service completed by anyone?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I am still struggling with Q353, always getting stuck at a Stop aspect near Cooks Mills MP187, two signals away from the Slip Rock crossovers.
Service Q217 is trailing me, and stopped one block behind.

Timetable objective seems a bit ambitious for the single GP38-2 that powers Q353, toting 35 cars: lv Cumberland 08:33 arr Hyndman 09:01 (28 mins running).
Trailing Q217 is powered by two big GE motors: lv Cumberland 08:44 arr Hyndman 09:09 (25 mins running)
As far as I can see trains do not overtake each other on the fly, nor are there passing sidings to arrange meets.

What am I doing wrong? I gave the GP38 the spurs this time, but still obeyed the speed limits (mostly, not getting into the red overspeed).
I just couldn't go much faster and was running on Approach indication for several blocks, even though there seemed to be no train ahead of me.

After waiting for an hour or so, I got off the locomotive and relinquished the train. The signal stayed red, the AI crew didn't overrun it, and fps suddenly was in the green with the train in full view!
I tried to sit in the conductors seat, hoping for a ride along, but alas, that didn't happen.
When I boarded the locomotive and took control however, fps dropped into the yellow again. Strangest thing, ESC didn't bring up the menu to end the scenario, I was stuck!

[GP15Dash1]

Yes, I just finished the Q353. I didn't have any troubles with it.

At the start, I released the automatic brakes and let the rear pressure build up to 89.0 before getting rolling. As you know, there are a couple manual-throw switches you need to align to get out of the west end of the Cumberland Yard. I used an initial set of the automatic brakes for each stop, then waited until the rear pressure was 88.0-89.0 before proceeding. The Q217 started rolling before I got to the west end of the yard, but sat at the signal just past Baltimore Street until I passed. (The Q217 followed me the whole way to Rockwood.)

The opposing traffic that might have hung things up for you at Cooks Mills is likely the N536, which passes Hyndman at around 9:38. By allowing my brakes to charge, I actually didn't arrive in Hyndman until around 10:00, and passed the N536 well before I got to Cooks Mills. It seems to me that by taking the time to pump up the brakes after each stop in Cumberland, you'll get enough behind schedule that the signalling can handle the opposing traffic through Hyndman. I didn't just sit and wait for the brakes pressure to come up, though...I put the reverser in neutral and ran the throttle up to Notch 2 to speed things up a little.

Once past Hyndman, I spent most of my time in Notch 8 doing 11 - 13 mph, and at the steepest part of the grade up near the east side of the Sandpatch Tunnel, my speed was down to below 8 mph in Notch 8 and the ammeter well up into the red band.

I wonder how the AI manages this service...I'm looking forward to running the Q217 to see if I get stuck running on yellows all the way up the east slope.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Yes, I just finished the Q353. I didn't have any troubles with it.

At the start, I released the automatic brakes and let the rear pressure build up to 89.0 before getting rolling. As you know, there are a couple manual-throw switches you need to align to get out of the west end of the Cumberland Yard. I used an initial set of the automatic brakes for each stop, then waited until the rear pressure was 88.0-89.0 before proceeding. The Q217 started rolling before I got to the west end of the yard, but sat at the signal just past Franklin Street until I passed. (The Q217 followed me the whole way to Rockwood.)

The opposing traffic that might have hung things up for you at Cooks Mills is likely the N536, which passes Hyndman at around 9:38. By allowing my brakes to charge, I actually didn't arrive in Hyndman until around 10:00, and passed the N536 well before I got to Cooks Mills. It seems to me that by taking the time to pump up the brakes after each stop in Cumberland, you'll get enough behind schedule that the signalling can handle the opposing traffic through Hyndman. I didn't just sit and wait for the brakes pressure to come up, though...I put the reverser in neutral and ran the throttle up to Notch 2 to speed things up a little.

Once past Hyndman, I spent most of my time in Notch 8 doing 11 - 13 mph, and at the steepest part of the grade up near the east side of the Sandpatch Tunnel, my speed was down to below 8 mph in Notch 8 and the ammeter well up into the red band.

I wonder how the AI manages this service...I'm looking forward to running the Q217 to see if I get stuck running on yellows all the way up the east slope.

I forgot the red part, and just followed the path (wrongly) set by the switches, and had to tab my way onto the main line at Viaduct Jct. This deviation from the intended path probably made the signalling logic go bonkers or whatever. It seems the drivers of "services" are allowed no freedom.

About the intended path as indicated by the blue track warrant line, is that the most logical route out of Cumberland?

[GP15Dash1]

I forgot the red part, and just followed the path (wrongly) set by the switches, and had to tab my way onto the main line at Viaduct Jct. This deviation from the intended path probably made the signalling logic go bonkers or whatever. It seems the drivers of "services" are allowed no freedom.

About the intended path as indicated by the blue track warrant line, is that the most logical route out of Cumberland?

I imagine that IRL, train crews don't get much freedom to choose their path in busy locations like Cumberland Yard. Even a warrant that permits you to do some switching off and back onto the main would be time-limited. I drove the U876A a few days ago and it took me on the same path out of the yard, so I would guess that's (for sim purposes, anyway) the path to use from the part of the yard where those services start.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I imagine that IRL, train crews don't get much freedom to choose their path in busy locations like Cumberland Yard. Even a warrant that permits you to do some switching off and back onto the main would be time-limited. I drove the U876A a few days ago and it took me on the same path out of the yard, so I would guess that's (for sim purposes, anyway) the path to use from the part of the yard where those services start.

About leaving Cumberland yard at Viaduct Jct: what about the signal aspect on those dwarf signals: should that be just a green, proceed according to timetable indicated speed instead of a restricted? Isn't proceed at restricted speed reserved for situations when your train enters unsignalled tracks?

Another signalling question you might be able to answer: the single head signal protecting the turnout leading into the Salisbury Industrial track in main track #2. Shouldn't that, like any facing points signal, be a double headed signal able to display slow clear or at least proceed at restricted speed aspects?

[artimrj]

I finished it late last night. Quite a long and boring run going 13 MPH at notch 8 for over an hour. 1 GP38-2 is not enough for that consist. I had no other difficulties.

[GP15Dash1]

Running the Q217 seems to be impossible, though. The first signal past Franklin Street is red and stays that way...stuck behind the AI Q353 which is at a red signal in the next block. The block after that shows green.

[GP15Dash1]

About leaving Cumberland yard at Viaduct Jct: what about the signal aspect on those dwarf signals: should that be just a green, proceed according to timetable indicated speed instead of a restricted? Isn't proceed at restricted speed reserved for situations when your train enters unsignalled tracks?

Another signalling question you might be able to answer: the single head signal protecting the turnout leading into the Salisbury Industrial track in main track #2. Shouldn't that, like any facing points signal, be a double headed signal able to display slow clear or at least proceed at restricted speed aspects?

Took a look through the 2014 CSX Rule Book, and I think a clue to the answer to your first question lies in rule 302.1:

"Unless the location is equipped with signals, trains must approach the end of two or more main
tracks, junctions, drawbridges, and railroad crossings at grade prepared to stop until it has been
visually determined that:
1. Switches, if equipped, are properly lined, and
2. Track is clear."

What you have there at Viaduct Junction is a signal gantry with signalling for the two main tracks, governing the interlocking in the next block, and two yard tracks, each with their own dwarf signal governing movement from the yard tracks onto Main Track 2 just before the interlocking. The movement of a train from the yard tracks at that spot would not be governed by the signals on the main line until the next block after the interlocking, which means that for trains entering from the yard tracks, the interlocking is effectively unsignalled. So, to satisfy Rule 302.1, trains coming off the Cumberland Yard leads onto Main Track 2 must approach the interlocking prepared to stop until they can visually determine that the switches are properly lined and the track is clear. Once the train is past the interlocking, it can speed up to the track speed.

The signal at Salisbury IT confused me, too. A single solid red light with a number plate on it fits Rule C1291, proceed at restricted speed. But...the number plate is mounted on the gantry under the double-headed signal for Track 1, so does it apply? It also fits Rule 1292c: stop. I don't remember from when I ran the coal train up to Salisbury what the signal aspect was. I was too busy trying to figure out how to switch ends of the train and configure the power properly to think much about the signal there. I'm sure I observed it, I just don't recall what it was. It's possible that the signal is wrong...others have observed that there are signal inaccuracies in TSW.

Anyway...I'd welcome discussion on those questions, especially if someone can set me straight!

[artimrj]

I finished Q217 in 1:58 playing straight through, no save. No problems.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

About leaving Cumberland yard at Viaduct Jct: what about the signal aspect on those dwarf signals: should that be just a green, proceed according to timetable indicated speed instead of a restricted? Isn't proceed at restricted speed reserved for situations when your train enters unsignalled tracks?

Another signalling question you might be able to answer: the single head signal protecting the turnout leading into the Salisbury Industrial track in main track #2. Shouldn't that, like any facing points signal, be a double headed signal able to display slow clear or at least proceed at restricted speed aspects?

Took a look through the 2014 CSX Rule Book, and I think a clue to the answer to your first question lies in rule 302.1:

"Unless the location is equipped with signals, trains must approach the end of two or more main
tracks, junctions, drawbridges, and railroad crossings at grade prepared to stop until it has been
visually determined that:
1. Switches, if equipped, are properly lined, and
2. Track is clear."

What you have there at Viaduct Junction is a signal gantry with signalling for the two main tracks, governing the interlocking in the next block, and two yard tracks, each with their own dwarf signal governing movement from the yard tracks onto Main Track 2 just before the interlocking. The movement of a train from the yard tracks at that spot would not be governed by the signals on the main line until the next block after the interlocking, which means that for trains entering from the yard tracks, the interlocking is effectively unsignalled. So, to satisfy Rule 302.1, trains coming off the Cumberland Yard leads onto Main Track 2 must approach the interlocking prepared to stop until they can visually determine that the switches are properly lined and the track is clear. Once the train is past the interlocking, it can speed up to the track speed.

The signal at Salisbury IT confused me, too. A single solid red light with a number plate on it fits Rule C1291, proceed at restricted speed. But...the number plate is mounted on the gantry under the double-headed signal for Track 1, so does it apply? It also fits Rule 1292c: stop. I don't remember from when I ran the coal train up to Salisbury what the signal aspect was. I was too busy trying to figure out how to switch ends of the train and configure the power properly to think much about the signal there. I'm sure I observed it, I just don't recall what it was. It's possible that the signal is wrong...others have observed that there are signal inaccuracies in TSW.

Anyway...I'd welcome discussion on those questions, especially if someone can set me straight!

Cumberland Yard is a separate subdivision with its own timetable and rules, perhaps the answer to the first question lies in that timetable? For reasons of efficiency, it is favourable to have the trains leave the yard without stopping.

I am listening to the West Slope railroad radio stream, but so far haven't been able to hear any mention of Salisbury Jct and trains making use of the Industrial Track. Perhaps the answer to the second question lies in the operative word 'industrial', i.e. the trackage to the mine is an industrial siding and doesn't need to be governed by a favourable signal aspect but is governed by track warrant?

[GP15Dash1]

Cumberland Yard is a separate subdivision with its own timetable and rules, perhaps the answer to the first question lies in that timetable? For reasons of efficiency, it is favourable to have the trains leave the yard without stopping.

I am listening to the West Slope railroad radio stream, but so far haven't been able to hear any mention of Salisbury Jct and trains making use of the Industrial Track. Perhaps the answer to the second question lies in the operative word 'industrial', i.e. the trackage to the mine is an industrial siding and doesn't need to be governed by a favourable signal aspect but is governed by track warrant?

I meant to look in the Cumberland Yard TT, but got distracted by my homework. I agree, it's best to keep the trains rolling as they leave the yard. What's the speed limit through the crossover at Viaduct Junction?

SandpatchConductor wrote in another thread that he's never seen the Salisbury IT used for anything but set out of BO cars and MOW equipment, so that would explain the lack of any mention on the radio. Seems like the Shaw Mine is shut down. No reason to go all the way to the end of that track.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Running the Q217 seems to be impossible, though. The first signal past Franklin Street is red and stays that way...stuck behind the AI Q353 which is at a red signal in the next block. The block after that shows green.

I asked the dispatcher by pressing TAB and got a track warrant to proceed at restricted speed. Past Franklin Street, the automatic block signals all showed Proceed. Q353 was speeding along, probably at track speed, since the single GP38-2 powering it is unhampered by physics as an AI service. It would have been more interesting if Q353 was as slow at it is when driven, and Q217 overtaking it on the fly before reaching Hyndman. There are no sidings east of the mountain to put a train aside.

[GP15Dash1]

I haven't had a chance to rerun the Q217, but that first time, the Q353 was definitely stuck at a red signal one block up from Viaduct Junction. I'll make another run at it next chance I get (at least a couple days), but it would be weird if the sim behaves that differently on different machines.