Yard Names

[Jay Jay]

Hi All, I'm a newb here looking for some help. I have created a route and would like to name my different yards and stations but can figgure out how. Can any one help?

[Toripony]

Hi All, I'm a newb here looking for some help. I have created a route and would like to name my different yards and stations but can figgure out how. Can any one help?

What you are looking for are "Markers". These attach to your tracks and allow you to enter a custom name for each one. When playing the route, your F6 key turns on these labels on your landscape. Markers are found under "Track Infrastructure" in your asset browser list. Select a marker, click it to the track in the neighborhood of where you want it. It appears with two "sliders" beside it used to extend a "ribbon" of that marker a short ways down the siding. This ribbon becomes a "Destination" when writing new scenarios for your route. Double-clicking the center post (with the orange top) brings up the text entry dialog flyout. The "Area Marker" can be placed on the ground anywhere you like if you want to post a "Sign" along the route.

[Jay Jay]

Thanks, gonna try it

J.J.

[Jay Jay]

Thanks, Toripony, can you explane what the other markers are for?

[SMMDigital]

Also, when you position a siding marker, is it necessary to stretch the marker the entire length of the siding, or can you just place it, name it, and leave it? The reason I ask is because NS has a habit of naming each end of a siding with a different name.

[Trainguy76]

Also, when you position a siding marker, is it necessary to stretch the marker the entire length of the siding, or can you just place it, name it, and leave it? The reason I ask is because NS has a habit of naming each end of a siding with a different name.

Stretch two as far as you can on one, as AI trains stop at the end of the marker, and also your own engine stops on the marker not the train.

[Toldrabald]

for platforms it would be rather obvious: the marker should be as long as the platform, otherwise not all doors of the passenger wagons will open. For sidings you don't have to be that precise, but helps the AIs stop as said before.

[Toripony]

There has been some discussion from scenario writers about leaving room for the ?waypoint markers? (I think?) that they insert in the scenario editor. I'm not positive of the final conclusion but I think it was about needing room toward each end of a siding. I just got finished marking all of my Alleghany Mountain route tracks and I stretched siding markers over the center 2/3's of a siding, and placed a destination marker near the switch end of a stub or at both ends of a true side track. This leaves about 1/6th of the track at each end open for other markers/needs. Does this sound like it will work for the AI stuff?

I also place destination markers at/near every junction, signal and both ends of every crossover.

Tori

[artimrj]

Well I have been wondering what to do with siding markers myself. The scenario writer that was complaining about long siding markers and I didnt agree. However Tom Bontempo did. In his P&LE route, he put short markers at the begining and end of each siding and that was it. I tried this and found that if you have a 20 car string and a teeny weeny siding marker, they never know they all got to the siding. SO I have been stretching my siding markers the whole length of the siding, then back off a little to leave some blank space for a scenario marker. Just like the platform markes need to be able to fit all the pax cars on for the doors to open, freight needs to be able to fit on the siding marker or your operation will not complete.

I do not understand what destination markers on a route are for. If someone could explain their purpose, I would be greatful.

[ChuckF]

Well I have been wondering what to do with siding markers myself. The scenario writer that was complaining about long siding markers and I didnt agree. However Tom Bontempo did. In his P&LE route, he put short markers at the begining and end of each siding and that was it. I tried this and found that if you have a 20 car string and a teeny weeny siding marker, they never know they all got to the siding. SO I have been stretching my siding markers the whole length of the siding, then back off a little to leave some blank space for a scenario marker. Just like the platform markes need to be able to fit all the pax cars on for the doors to open, freight needs to be able to fit on the siding marker or your operation will not complete.

I do not understand what destination markers on a route are for. If someone could explain their purpose, I would be greatful.

Hi Bob! Destination Markers are placed at important locations along the main lines of routes, so that routing paths can be made for Standard and Timed Scenarios. This is most important for routes that use automatic switches on the main lines, as it is the only way they can be controlled. In the manual, check the use of the "Stop at Destination" icon. In the right hand flyout, if the speed at destination is "0" then the player will be instructed to stop at the Destination Marker. If the speed is higher than "0", ie. 1 or 10 MPH, than the player drives past the Destination Marker to the next one. Hope this makes sense. Cheers; Chuck F.

[artimrj]

Chuck, it makes perfect sense for using a destination marker in a scenario you would place it yourself to control the AI or player train. But I am building a route, should I be placing them while route building also?

[pikehkr]

This has been discussed before and I have to agree with the scenario writers with regard to this topic.

The markers are available in the scenario editor so that you can direct your operations and be pretty specific.

The problems come in when you want to do multiple tasks on a given siding. If you create the marker in the Route Editor and if there is only 1 marker for the entire length then you cannot do multiple tasks on that siding, such as multiple drops from multiple trains.

The fact that you cannot place a marker on top of another marker limits the route as far as scenario creation goes.

If you want your route creations to be more flexible then you should consider just placing short destination markers for the purpose of identifying locations and let the scenario creator have as much flexibility as possible for creating scenarios.

If you want your route creations to be less flexible for scenario creation then you should use full length siding markers.

The reason for putting the route destination markers at the ends of the sidings is to identiy the siding and the rest of the siding can be used for placing a scenario siding marker of the length needed for that scenario. Maybe you want 2 siding markers. Your task might be to drop off 5 tankers at a certain spot on the siding and then pull out of the way while an AI train backs in and drops off 4 boxcars onto that same siding but further up. Your task is then to pull in and pick up the boxcars and the tankers and take them somewhere else (in the proper order) so you can drop them off as needed. You cannot do this with 1 long siding marker.

Since most people do not want to have to edit the route (remove markers and replace them), then have to publish a new version of the route (depending on the Author's requirements) and most people probably do not want 5 copies of the same route each with slightly different markers, it just seems like a better option to not use full-length markers.

I am all for leaving it as open as possible because I have no idea what someone else will want to do or what their creative capabilities are.

What is the benefit of having long siding markers created in the route editor as opposed to a short destination marker?

Pikehkr

[Toripony]

Ok, just to be sure.... you're saying to leave out siding markers completely? I put in both, so it will be quick and easy for me to correct but I just want to be sure that this is what scenario writers really want!??

Tori

[artimrj]

Ok Pike, after watching your signalling tutorials again this morning, what your saying makes a lot of sense. I havent seen it explained that way before. I only saw it with a lot of whining in the thread. SO the route maker just labels the sidings with a destination marker and the scenario maker has to put siding markers where they need them. I was thinking this would be a lot of extra when writing a scenario, but I guess you wouldnt use every siding on the route at one time.

One more question, why do I want to label each end of the siding? Why not one in the middle? Or only on one end? Why 2? This is all new to me, ( making a route), and I want my route to get used. Like Tori says it wont take much to change it.

[pikehkr]

Tori,

I am just 1 scenario writer, I do not speak for everyone.

All I know is that however you mark the route in route editor mode, I cannot change in scenario editor mode.

Bob,

I would not place a siding marker at all in route editor mode. I would place the destination markers at the end of the siding, near the buffer, if one exists. Placing the mark in the middle would prevent me from placing a marker for the entire siding.

General,

As for me, I think there should be a better way to annotate the map, such as a placing a flag by the siding (naming it). No matter what we do, someone will not like it. If you put out a route with no siding markers, then people will complain because they cannot create a scenario without having to create siding markers. If you name all the siding markers then a few will complain because they cannot create a specific action for the scenario to take.

If the AI will never get any more capabilities then I think the way it is, is fine. If the AI will be able to be scripted to do more complex actions then the way it is may not work very well. If RW will create a new type of marker that can be placed over existing markers then that fixes the issue. There are a lot of "if" things to deal with here.

Since this whole scenario marker capability is relatively new, I think everyone, including RW have the mentality that markers are part of the route creation process since that is how it was to begin with. My whole thinking is how do we best accomplish both for right now and the best I can come up with is to place short destination markers where they will not interfere with the future placement of other markers for scenario specific tasks.

I feel like the step was taken to allow for more complex scenarios with the advent of scenario based markers and even scenario based scenery so I think that routes should contain less markers and they should only be placed to provide identification. This puts much more responsibility on the scenario creator to create each marker needed but provides much more flexibility at the same time.

Take for example a passenger run where you are driving a train with 4 passenger cars. As long is you pull into the station and your 4 passenger cars are within the markers for the platform, that is successful. That platform marker may be set up for 8 passenger cars and as long as you are anywhere in that area, you are golden. Well, that is not good enough and I want to shrink down the platform marker so that it is tougher for you to succeed. I want the platform marker to be the length of 5 cars instead of 8 so precision now counts much more. If the platform marker was created in the route, I cannot do that without having to edit the route and redistribute it. That is not very efficient for anyone.

If you place a destination marker in the middle of the platform then I cannot place a platform marker for 8 passengers cars since your route marker is in the way and I cannot overwrite it. Again, not a good option for anyone.

The best idea is to place a short route destination marker close but not in the platform track area that gives the platform name (if not provided by an area marker or any other 2D map identifier) so that I can place a platform marker of the length needed to complete the scenario.

The same idea goes for sidings. How do we annotate it and not interfere with a scenario that may want to use the whole siding, part of the siding, multiple parts of the siding, etc...

If there is a better way to do this then I am all for that but I do not know of one that allows for close proximity naming of track areas such as a yard or passing siding that will display on the 2D map. Is there one?

Pikehkr