General Electric U34CH & Dieseliner Coaches by Pullman Standard

[minerman146]

I also emailed this to my father which got an immediate call back.
Now i understand a 'set' or 'application'

To make an application you move the handle from release, forward, to the position you want to make a set.
Now the brakes are "set' to that application.
You can move the brake handle forward to increase the application
You cannot move the brake handle backwards to reduce the application
To reduce the application, you must go back to Release and then move forward to a new position that uses less pressure.

Holy Crap I think I got it. And I think this is how it works in game.

* I also read how this braking percentage we have in game was originally configured in MS Train Simulator, then by kuju and its NOT how its supposed to work.
If anything is should says POUNDS of pressure used. Wild!

[minerman146]

After a few more hours my father called back and educated me. So bear with me.
Notes:
A. Understand that 90/110 pounds of air is not all usable.
B. For the U34CH you have 32 pounds to work with
C. Each "set" or applications you make subtracts from the amount of usable air. Ex. 6lbs application leaves us with 26lbs, an additional application of 5lbs would leave 21lbs., the subtraction continues until 32lbs is used then NO BRAKES
D. Using Electric Hold after making an application Ex 5lbs, leaves us with 27lbs BUT the system will recharge to our 90/110lbs giving us a usable 32lbs again.
E. You can make another "set" from Electric Hold, say 5lbs again, This will USE the air unless you put this application in Electric Hold as well.
F. You can only reduce a brake application by first going to RELEASE and then moving the handle into the "quadrant" and apply less lbs or force that you want.
G. After making a set and the specified force (say 6lbs) you will hear a loud rush of air, when the pressure equalizes.
H. At 100lbs for passenger and after you make an application of 6lbs, your gauge will show 94lbs ( 6 minus 100)

So how does this work on the handle? Lets look at the 5 position as we move from left to right.

1. RELEASE - No Brake Application
2. Electric Hold - No Brake Application
3. LAP-Handle Off - No Brake Application
4. Service: Any movement further to the right WILL apply brakes
( This is the Service Quadrant, after Service the pounds used increases from 0% to 100% at Emergency
5. Emergency - 100% Braking Application.

So where in the handle position is it that braking force is applied?
A. Between Service and Emergency

How do I know how many pounds I am using in my application?
A. Leave the handle in position and look the gauge. The difference between the number you see and 100 is the amount of pounds you are using.

So, when I have set the handle in between Service and Emergency and I show 94lbs, I have made a 6lbs application. What do I do to hold that?
A. Move the handle to Electric Hold

So, when I am in electric hold my train will continue to brake and the same rate until when?
A. Until you stop or
B. You move the handle past service to make a stronger application (you are using air now!) or
C. You move the handle again back to Electric Hold to set the brake at the new rate or
D. You go to Release

Great now I am in release what happens now?
A. Your brakes are off - so you repeat the braking process again by going again in to service and making a new application.

Tell me more about the service quadrant are there increment or positions ?
A. No you have watch the gauge when you move to the right of Service to see how many pounds.

Ok, this wont work in the game unless I have 100 positions right?
A. Well no, if you had 100 positions and 32lbs of usable air, then each of the 100 positions would be about .32lbs, you know a third of a pound, you dont operate the train like that.

Well I keep hearing you talk about an initial 6lb application, if I had 5 increments of 6.4lbs would that work?
A. It could but you might try 6 increments of 5.3 lbs.

That's what my father came up with. He said all these question and seeing the model helped him to remember. Now if I can apply this to the game that would be interesting. I bet we would call this Advanced Braking! Would I still need to have 'simple' brakes where you just move the brake lever up in the HUD increasing the brake force by percent with no relationship to handle position?

[minerman146]

I will start with what we have for good news. We do have Electric Hold for the Brakes that work and I have personally tested. But, its not in the model yet. I expect this to be corrected by the end of the week. After that I will send to my father for final blessing. The other good news is that the models are in the pipe line at DTG and there is preliminary approval dependent on a final pass by licensing and QC. I do have some information that I would like to pass on from somewhere in DTG where they "recognize the hard work to make these life-like". Nice!

Now for the bad news. No one saw this coming. As you know the Bluebird NJT was rejected last week. And just this morning we got word that all the low door models were rejected. Interesting. But first lets go to a visual report on what models will be released and tied into the Morristown Line on Steam.

20200225201016_1.jpg

20200205001940_1.jpg

20200225201043_1.jpg

20200225201222_1.jpg

20200225201025_1.jpg

The X denotes the models rejected by New Jersey Transit. It appears someone got a closer look at the models and the low-doors were specifically rejected. Here is the money quote " rejected equipment is incredibly old" the next part is someone else's paraphrasing. "they are not against using older equipment but the design was (not) specific to the NJ and NJ transit brand"

After digesting this email for a few minutes I figured out what was going on. As much as it pains me, I agree with the logic of New Jersey Transit. The logic is that the image of New Jersey Transit is that of modern, safe, clean and reliable public transportation AND their image starts in 1979. While these units were inherited by NJ Transit they are not native to their history. In other words, they as an organization, didn't procure these units and so they are in discord with their branding. Kudos to their marketing team for being constant.

The high-doors pass because 1. they ordered them new from Bombardier in 1982 and 2. perhaps they allow for the rebuild of 1987 in that they look the same as the new builds. They know their stuff.

Now how the U34CH Disco scheme passes, I don't know. Other than clearly being in the modern NJ Transit scheme (compared to the bluebirds) this is inconsistent with what I mention above.

So, I really need someone to sit down and vent to. I have been working on this since September 2018, got the drawings, did the research, pitched this and stayed involved in every step of the process. Then I come up against a sound argument from NJT.

There is one ... glimmer ... of ... hope.

We still have approval for the Erie Lackawanna Logo from Norfolk Southern that is out there still. I also realize that I want to use the NJDOT logo and I don't think DTG has a line of communication with them. In fact, I doubt they do. So, I have taken it upon myself to contact the New Jersey Department of Transportation.

This is my final option to get EL-NJDot and now the darn LOW-DOORs into our game. This would be a shame not to have this significant train-set that solidified the use of push-pull trains in commuter service in not just New Jersey, but in modern commuter operations throughout the US.

I think this model is not just fun, its loud, its analog and an excellent reflection United States railroad engineering from the late 1960s.

Wish me luck friends.

[buzz456]

Just put it out generic and let someone (hint hint) put the logo's and paint scheme out as a free offering.

[minerman146]

When that moment comes I know who to call. At this point it looks like 1 loco and coach set will need to be that way.
I hope everyone understands that I very much want to work within the Steam/DTG system and have their support in the project. And they have been very supportive. The other good part is I am learning so much about the challenge of getting a model together and getting it approved.

[buzz456]

DTG puts out all sorts of generic stuff so why not this?

"Life will find a way."
Dr. Ian Malcolm

[minerman146]

Buzz, I live in the bubble of my route so I don't know anything about that. I do understand what you mean, same paint but no logos. The logos themselves are objects as I have been told, but i don't know exactly how that works. There is so much i don't know or understand about TS.

[buzz456]

Buzz, I live in the bubble of my route so I don't know anything about that. I do understand what you mean, same paint but no logos. The logos themselves are objects as I have been told, but i don't know exactly how that works. There is so much i don't know or understand about TS.

Since BNSF has continued to act like a bunch of morons and not let anything with their logo get sold outside the good old USA several routes have been produced with rolling stock and signage and such just with no name on them. Montana HiLine and The Race Track are two that come to mind. Since these items are usually put out with the signage as decals making it easy for them to be produced for the international market with this area left blank.
Certain individuals are then left with the task of making up freeware signs showing certain railroads usually posting them as add-ons in the library here. Problem solved and everyone can go away happy.

No one knows if this makes the BNSF lawyers unhappy but since we all hope a thousand camels defecate on their lawns regularly who cares.

[mindenjohn]

I’ll chip in to pay for the camels.

[minerman146]

I just read a post about the SD60E livery pack. So publishing the loco and coach on Steam work the same way as you describe. I think I got it.

[buzz456]

I’ll chip in to pay for the camels.

[cnwfan]

See if Cesar would be willing to share a "layered" PhotoShop .psd file for the main texture(s) with hidden layers for the "unapproved" imaging. Buzz's Repaint Emporium can then work his magic from that. Granted, you wouldn't be able to share Workshop scenarios with the repaints, but scenarios can be shared here.

[minerman146]

Well, that was fun. This will be released at the end of March.

[minerman146]

Well, I am now back. We have the EL-NJDOT unit cooking right now and I just sent some detail items over to Cesar to work with. Still no firm word from Norfolk Southern and NJDOT - but they have both been contacted.

The brakes - are closer but still needs help. I have my father involved in this fully and he really is the prime source of information on how it behaved. He says of the 7 different brakes he ran, the all behave the same when applying brake. Its each train that is different and knowing how to brake for the train you have is the key skill of an engineer. Now he ran the RS3s, E8s and GP9s in passenger service, he was always on time - not an issue. When the U34CH came on line, his training consisted of being told that he was running the new locomotive the next day. As and experienced engineer, he was expected to understand operations when he got in the cab. Interesting. Once he started using the Electric Hold it changed everything. He could make a application before the station, release or add more air as needed as he hit platform because the air was still fully charged using electric hold. He said it was complete "game changer" and simplified complex braking maneuvers and lessened risk. He is very adamant about this.

So, we are trying to overcome the programming to make it work at least, some what like he describes. Right now the issues are follows:
1. Brakes make an application at the lap position
2. Brakes make an application at the service position
3. Brakes apply in game too quickly to easily make a small 6lb application.
4. Brakes dont 'rest' in Electric Hold, LAP and Service ( When we set steps in the brakes - the loco crashes)
5. Brakes need more fine control using the mouse, key board and HUD ) so we can set a reduction that we want. (Between Service and Emergency)

Here is the diagram of the correct brake for the u34ch as previously shown.

PS-68-Brake.JPG

A great deal of work has gone in to get the Electric Hold to work and it does because of all the tuning Cesar has done. I am trying to learn the coding, but while I made progress my first 2 hours of study, I realized I need many more ours of working the settings, configuration and applying it to a model to have just a basic idea of how to program the brakes to meet my requirements. Cesar is speaking with another developer, who is of course busy with his own projects.

Since I dont have a frame of reference - programming the brakes appears to be time intensive - perhaps 12 hours to configure and tune. My number is a total swag, but I want to have an idea of how complex it is for the modeler.

[minerman146]

I hear that we are 2 weeks away from release of the NJT U34CH and Hi-Door Coaches. But seriously, until we read Gary Dolzall's loving prose and praise for the unit how do we really know for sure? I can see the title now: " U-Boats on the Hudson - GE sounds the alarm and dives into the commuter market"