General Electric U34CH & Dieseliner Coaches by Pullman Standard

[minerman146]

I just got revision number 15 this evening - Cesar has been working on the brakes and did some fixes. The past 3 hours were spend doing road tests and driving 1 scenario on the Morristown Line. The ride was really enjoyable. My request to remove Alpha from the cabs wast fulfilled so no more 'bumpy'' , glossy textures. Below are my highlights of this evenings testing.

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[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Looks excellent and is making good progress.

Please ask the developer to give the headlight this yellowish incandescent glare. Only todays blue/white LED headlights are this white.

[BoostedFridge]

Please ask the developer to give the headlight this yellowish incandescent glare. Only todays blue/white LED headlights are this white.

^ Agreed.

[minerman146]

How did I miss that? I know, the sheer volume of other details. Message sent, I am awaiting revision 16 in a few hours. We are in the final stretch.

[minerman146]

This is the cab car of version 16 at 0600 hrs Summer with the cab light on.
This is what I am talking about right here. Even with limitations - he is pulling it off. I am impressed

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It may not be an M4.......
But the 1960s technology is well represented!

See the alpha and texture chamges?

Latest shot of the control stand for the U34CH

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Waiting for version 17 with the yellow lights.

[minerman146]

We have had some ongoing drama in the past two weeks since the last post. Version 18 was submitted to DTG for testing and evaluation. The images of all the models were sent to NJ Transit for review. The "Disco" scheme and all of the coaches were accepted. The "Bluebird" scheme was rejected. Instead of paraphrasing, I will directly quote it.

"The engine shots that are blue and silver are the old Erie Lackawanna and NJDOT locomotives and although there is a legend out there that there may have been one or two with the NJT logo on them in our very, very early years, there is no way that, these will get approved for this purposes"

After I got over my initial shock, I read it a few more times and found it both understandable and charming at the same time. You see, New Jersey Transit has a sense of its own history and its beginnings in 1978 and those were tough times indeed. And for me, its pleases me to no end that the words "Erie Lackawanna" used in the year 2020 on official correspondence. Actually, it does make sense for the rejection. They refer to thier "marks" later on in the response. As you know from some of the photographs that the by the mid 1980s, when some of the noses got that silver paint and logo, the units were looking pretty rough. I think that these units are not in line with the image that they want to uphold, so for that reason, I agree.

However there is a ray of sunshine. Sometime after 1978, NJT peeled the EL and NJDOT logos off and these units existed for a number of years bare and without markings until a few got silver noses, and some others got silver noses and the NJT Logo. We have images of U34CH units in this configuration as seen below. We are seeking approval for this scheme and I have confidence that this will appear in the release.

U34CH-NJT-Nekkid.JPG

We still await Norfolk Southern approval and it dawned on me that we are going to need approval from NJDOT as well so we can do the orginal, magnificent and beautiful as-built "Bluebird" scheme as it appeared in 1971.

[minerman146]

Next up involves all the testing I have been doing over the past 2 months. Most of that time was spend antiquing and color matching. Seriously, a good deal of time was spent on identifying details, having them added, but really going over how the the model looks. I would literally walk around after each release and check the cabs, coach interiors, undercarriage, graphics, color, weathering, roof, wheels and submit change requests with supporting documentation. Then, when a fresh release would come out, I would note all that was done and not done and come up with more changes. This brought us to version 18. I have fond memories of version 1 and the panic attack I had when I saw some of the textures. Now these are all resolved. I must say how completely open-minded, agreeable, hardworking and dedicated Cesar has been working on this model. For example ... yellow lights!

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No really we got the yellow lights!

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I am so glad we didnt keep this under wraps and wait till AFTER the release to find problems. So all you guys get credit for quality control on this project. Of course anything that is wrong will be my fault. There are 2 details, one I will reference in the next post and the other I will keep as an Easter Egg and see if anyone ever notices it.
That's it for this post.

[minerman146]

So we were talking about version #18. Visually, it was a good as it was going to get. Prior to 18 there were a number of functional and performance issue that needed resolution. HEP by and large was the biggest issue. With v.18 we got the HEP, the mode switch working, the rest of the switches ( order light, number board lights, cab lighting and the end lights working so that when the headlight is turned on the rear of the train gets the red. Now it was time to turn the train over to my Dad "Mr. New York Division" here is his review - which I paraphrased.

Here are the results of my Fathers Test Drive today. I will start with what the only thing he complained about - Braking Force. He is saying the Train Brake needs to be Double what it is! We did have a version with more aggressive brakes I think 3 releases ago so version 13 or 14. Personally I was say it needs to be 50% more to represent the electrically assisted brake for passenger service. I watched him from a remote monitoring tool I have as he was working the brakes and he was testing platform stops. Trust me - he KNOWS how to use the brakes.

And that was it !

The Cabs he said were dead on - he knew where everything was - as usual he said " the cabs were filthy, they never cleaned them.
The Throttle - he sounded surprised on how well the work he said ' look, look at the amps see that, that's what its supposed to look like' Considering we GUESSED on how it was supposed to be, I will keep my mouth shut!
Exterior - he made sure to check the hoses in front of the engine - he said "good, that's how its supposed to be.
Horns - he said " yeah, you got the horns "
Coach interior he said " yeah that was they looked like.
Cab Car (we were in the NJDOT) he viewed it from the fireman's seat .. .and Said "That's really good, other than being too clean, its what it looked like"
Gauges in the Cab Car - This was odd - he asked what the center gauge was! Dad, thats the speedometer - the one I have been asking if it was digital or not for the past year and a half. He said " I still can-t remember - not sure"
Engine Cab - he said "you got the radio right and the piping for the Speedo, the control stand and handles are right and all the labeling (We worked hard enough on that stuff! )

What was interesting is that he asked if people drove this casually or were serious and driving it like is was for real. I told him both, but I presume mostly casual. So he asked for me to remove the HUD all pull the FOV all the way back to he could see the brakes, the speedometer and look though the front window at the same time. This he liked very much. So, he said to give him a month of driving it to test it. completely! Ha! My Dad is such the engineer - he could care less about what was going on out side the train other than signals. - Brakes, Throttle and air is what he cares about.

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Fun experience - From what I can see from my Dad' we got ourselves a good model!

In reality he was swearing at the brakes - "How am I supposed to keep to schedule with this - I would never make it". I agreed, the braking force was not there. This led to version 19 and finally version 20. Version 20 came in about 1pm Eastern, today the 17th. Since my father knows the New York Division our testing was on the Bergen from Plauderville to Suffern. He has several issues to overcome with this being a simulator. Using a mouse to manipulate the controls, particularly the brake "sucks" as he said. Then we had issues with him using the game, mouse control in particular and messing up the HUD by clicking the coupler button. One thing I found interesting was he could not "see" far enough down the track to judge distance to the platform. He said he was making a target where he was going to stop the train at the platform. We had a good deal of late braking and were hitting platforms at 40 to 50 mph before he got that worked out. My observations was that he was expecting the train to stop much more aggressively than he was getting. You really cant hit a platform at greater than 35 mph and expect to NOT over shoot the platform.

I really appreciate his input as he drove the U34CH and Cab Car a few hundred times. I have been in them maybe 4 time and I drove it once and in each case Dad was the engineer and the guy who let me drive that one time.


So here is the picture of something wrong with the model that will stay in just because. There were so many things to work on, and frankly I was getting a little embarrassed with my never ending laundry list of stuff. So, in spite of all the pictures, actually two, originals that I just expected this to just get picked up. But alas, it was not to be, so, BEHOLD the seats from DTM's Big 7s pack!

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So, when I was monitoring my Dads session and were literally spinning around the cab trying to get the mouse under control ... he sees the seat.
He says "Stop right there" I say ' you mean here on the seat" ? ( I know of course its a 20 year newer seat than he had) So he says " Look at this seat, I am taking this thing home and putting it in the living room!"

Yeah, he noticed the seat was wrong.... too funny.

[BNSFdude]

Keep a grip on those EL/NJDOT skins. Very easy way to skirt around whatever NJT wants by releasing them for free here.

[minerman146]

Keep a grip on those EL/NJDOT skins. Very easy way to skirt around whatever NJT wants by releasing them for free here.

Oh, I definitely will!

[minerman146]

Dad was right there is a problem with the brakes. I HAD the information, I SENT the information but I did not UNDERSTAND the information.

This is a snippet of some of my outbound correspondence - I can feel the panic! NOW my Dad's stories about flying into a station and landing like a plane on an aircraft carrier. Now we have 2 other people involved in trying to make this work. Hopefully this is done in game already.

If I had known that this brake system which is specific to hauled commuter cars was more than a standard air brake system I would have researched it more closely. We see the handle positions in the U34CH manual, what we don't know is 1. how much braking force is applied in each of these positions: Electric Holding, LAP, Service and Emergency. 2. Confirm that after pipe charge in Electric Hold, you go to Release (which takes the brakes off) and then you can make a normal air applications in LAP? to Service? to complete a station stop. Speaking to my father, this was his method of braking. Train between stations at track speed (60-70 mph), apply Electric Holding on approach to platform. RELEASE at 40 MPH, Make Service Application at platform, and then Release and or Make additional applications as needed to smoothly stop the train. I presume the braking system and technique is used at the Cab Car an on the U34CH.

Some research on the brake system itself.

NYAB PS-68 electro-pneumatic braking system

In U.S. Pat. No. 3,707,309, there is described a hydraulic brake system for railway rapid transit service which is known commercially as the PS-68 Brake Equipment, P.S.B.E., marketed by New York Air Brake Company, a Unit of General Signal Corporation. In that system, the brake cylinders on each truck are provided with a translating and valving unit of the type described in U.S. Pat. No. 3,622,207, granted Nov. 23, 1971, which joins these cylinders to a hand brake control unit and to a hydro-pneumatic booster assembly constructed in accordance with the preferred teachings of U.S. Pat. No. 3,513,656, granted May 26, 1970.

PS-68.JPG

[cnwfan]

Take a look at the F40's and the bi-level cab cars used in the Peninsula Gilroy route. Those F40's and cab cars had the 26E brake schedule, which is similar to your brakes. It too had the EP hold, lap, and service quadrants, along with (I believe but do not have first hand knowledge) suppression, handle off, and emergency.

EP hold will hold a brake set, but will also charge the equalizing reservoir / brake pipe back to 110 lbs.
Release releases the brake set and will charge the brake pipe.
Lap is like a holding position. When you want to make a set, move the handle to the service quandrant, which will reduce the equalizing reservoir / brake pipe. Keep in service quandrant until the desired equalizing reservoir / brake pipe pressure is achieved. Once achieved, move the handle to lap.

I would watch our engineers make an initial set at their air spot, and would then use additional sets, EP hold, and even a quick release back to EP to let off a little brake cylinder pressure. As your dad knows, it was an art, and your braking had to be adjusted for train weight along with dry / wet rail. Even the best of our engineers would occasionally overshoot the platform by one or two cars. We would reposition the train using hand signals, and would then blame the delay on passenger loading.

[minerman146]

That's a great suggestion I might have the F40 and I will check that this evening. And the way your describing the breaking sounds very similar to my father on the phone last night. I swear he would hit the platform at 40, and the unit would have this continuous breaking action. If you were standing in the aisle, your would be leaning forward because of the force then you would gently be vertical again...and the train, it just stopped. No rolling no jerking.
That was my Dad. It was like the Zen of Train with him.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Was the EP continuous i.e. analog, or a 3 wire 'digital' solution allowing only 8 'braking notches'? Which should be enough to ensure smooth braking.

[minerman146]

Ooo, From my research and my father the EP was continuous. The patent information says three-wire electric with 3 positions: Release, Hold and Emergency.

My problem is I know next to nothing on how to actually use the brakes, I use the HUD all the time. Keyboard works the best because it goes to pre-defined increments. My father only knows the actual brakes and is learning to use the 'game' brakes. My other problem is that I dont know how to program the brakes let alone find where those files are (at the moment). The key is to translate these controls into the model. So, I am starting from zero here.

What I desire is:
1. To see each of the 5 potions in the Hud: Release, Electric Holding, Lap, Service and Emergency
2. To move past the Electric Hold without having it set, to go to Lap and Service.
3. To know how many pounds of air is used (braking force) in each position
4. To use the Electric Hold, have the pipes charge and know how much braking force is applied in that postion
5. To be able to Release the electric hold by going to release
6. To a. understand and b. be able to program the postionsing and brake force in the Electric Hold to Service Quadrant
7. To be corrected on any of my errant assumptions!



From the U34CH Manual Below:
NO. 68 MOTORMAN'S BRAKE VALVE (See Figs. 1 and 4)
This brake valve controls electrical trainline circuits for initiating electro-pneumatic applications and releases. It also controls the development of equalizing reservoir pressure for piloting the development of brake pipe pressure for automatic pneumatic brake applications. The electro-pneumatic drum on the controller opens and closes electric contacts to trainline circuits to provide electric automatic brake
instantaneously and simultaneously throughout the train. The handle positions of this brake valve are as follows :

AIR EQUIPMENT
BRAKE HANDLE POSITIONS :

1. RELEASE POSITION - This position charges the equipment and releases the locomotive and train brakes after an automatic application. Cam action of the drum switch opens all contacts to electrical circuits, thus providing instantaneous brake release on all cars. The RELEASE position is at the extreme left of the quadrant and is the normal position when the automatic brake is not in use.

2. ELECTRIC HOLDING POSITION - This position holds the applied brake as in LAP position and also allows charging the system while the brakes are being held when the electric brake is used. This feature is especially useful when numerous and frequent stops are made which would normally bleed down the charge on the system. In freight service, this is the same as RELEASE position. This position is located to the right of RELEASE position.
CAUTION : IF THE HANDLE IS IN HOLDING POSITION AND THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM FAILS, THEN THE BRAKES WILL RELEASE THROUGHOUT THE TRAIN.

3. LAP POSITION (Handle Off) - This position, located to the right of ELECTRIC HOLDING, stops the service brake pipe reduction occuring on the locomotive and the train. The brake valve handle is removable in this position.

4. SERVICE POSITION - This position, located to the right of LAP, provides a service brake application by causing a brake pipe pressure reduction at a service rate.

5. EMERGENCY POSITION - This position is located at the extreme right of the brake valve quadrant. Movement of the brake valve handle in the first portion of this section provides electrical emergency braking throughout the train. Movement of the brake valve handle to the extreme right of the emergency section provides electro-pneumatic braking. This results in a conventional pneumatic emergency brake application back-up in case of an electric circuit failure.