POLYS

[jpetersjr]

Tell me, exactly which plugin are you using for the segments. If anything, I might have to restart my Alco MRS-1.

[Johnybotto]

This is a very basic question, but one I have been trying to find a definitive answer to, When we talk about polys as they relate to the game, are polys defined as only triangles, or do all faces of a model count as polys? I know this is a very basic question, but I'm still confused, I apologize for my naiveté.

John

[eyein12]

@johnbotto: its ok I had that same question. from what i was told, polys are referring to faces, and triangles. for our purposes faces are usually made up of triangles, but we consider them all to be the same. so when one says i have 50 polys, it means 50 faces or 50 triangles.

@jpetersjr: pipe along path tool, and cylinder tool are the 2 major tools that decrease your poly count manually. instead of piping a default pipe which has a whopping 24 segments make up your circle (which looks really smooth, and usually isnt necessary at all), you can create a line and pipe along that path typing in values for inside/outside diameter(i put 0 for inside diameter), length(for cylinders), and most importantly change segments. 24 segments can be changed to whatever, 8 is usually plenty. it may not look as crisp as youre used to, and smooth but if you take a close look at the dash 9 neither is theirs. this saves a ton on polys and its the same tool that max, and canvas have built in. So this basically confirms you can create a model in sketchup and reduce the cost of your model so that its on par with everyone else's. You cant do this with just the basic tools in sketchup you need the plugins.

[SMMDigital]

Not trying to muddy the water here, bit I thought each face was made up of two triangles? I think a basic box is made up of 12 triangles, 2 per side/face?

[Johnybotto]

Thank you Eyein12! One last simplistic question and I will stop: In creating my models I use edge loops that go through the entire model. When done, there are multi faces I can delete and rejoin vertexes to create one face where there were many. Is this OK to do? From what I have read, it is good practice to keep the edge loops consistent. If I delete the the multi faces and replace with one face it disrupts the edge loops flow. An example would be using edge loops to define the curve of a roof, the edge loops are needed for the roof alone, but flow through the sides as well. I would delete the multiple faces on the sides and replace with one face. I hope I explained that clearly.

John

[eyein12]

Thank you Eyein12! One last simplistic question and I will stop: In creating my models I use edge loops that go through the entire model. When done, there are multi faces I can delete and rejoin vertexes to create one face where there were many. Is this OK to do? From what I have read, it is good practice to keep the edge loops consistent. If I delete the the multi faces and replace with one face it disrupts the edge loops flow. An example would be using edge loops to define the curve of a roof, the edge loops are needed for the roof alone, but flow through the sides as well. I would delete the multiple faces on the sides and replace with one face. I hope I explained that clearly.

John

that sounds a bit involved. I guess as long as the change doesnt screw up the appearance you should be good, and it sounds like yo ucut down on the poly count this way too. what program are you using? check out your model info in whatever program your using, to get the poly count.

@Jerry: a face can be made up of many triangles, or even 1 triangle can make a face technically speaking. Thus 1 triangle can equal 1 face, and can equal a poly. this all depends on what your primitive shape is. basically all we care about is the amount of triangles in our model, which ultimately means polys.

[Johnybotto]

I'm using Blender 3D. Yes, I have considered doing it to cut down on the poly count. In tests it does not seem to affect the appearance of the models. I was uncertain if there were other reasons for keeping the edge loops intact.
Thank you for your help!

[cilldroichid1]

Sorry for butting in here on a very helpful thread to helping me understand LOD's. At least in Blender the face count has to be doubled if all your faces are quads to get the poly count. Its my understanding that SMMDigital has it correct, one quad equals two triangles, which if i understand correctly all computer game models are rendered in triangles even if build in quads. Probably not much of a concern with basic scenery items but would be with more complex models such as loco's.

[Johnybotto]

Sorry for steering the conversation in another direction. This thread has cleared up some murky areas, both how LODs work and how the game counts Polys. I can now focus my reading a bit more. Thank you to all for the information, this is why I like RWA, well informed people willing to share ideas.

[eyein12]

Sorry for butting in here on a very helpful thread to helping me understand LOD's. At least in Blender the face count has to be doubled if all your faces are quads to get the poly count. Its my understanding that SMMDigital has it correct, one quad equals two triangles, which if i understand correctly all computer game models are rendered in triangles even if build in quads. Probably not much of a concern with basic scenery items but would be with more complex models such as loco's.

jerry is right 1 quad = two triangles. but not all faces are simple squares where 2 triangles make it up. a side can easily have more triangles to make up the shape. and changing around the triangles to have 2 to make up the shape will most certainly cause the shape to change.


It turns out even lowering my polys down to 37K without a proOptimzer hasnt changed anything, 37K is well within reason for a model for reailworks, if not well then thats pathetic all things considered. It still creates stuttering in highly populated areas of routes, whereas RSC locos do not. SO this has to be related to LODs then. I dont understand though all the clutter is less than 100 meters. but I gues I don't understand your method Jerry, did you just make a low poly version of a part and change the prefix to 2 instead of 1? I guess I will wait for Rick G to take a look at my model, and see what i may have missed.

[Bananarama]

1 face = 1 triangle. A poly is one or more unbroken triangles.

[SMMDigital]

Ian, your assesment of what I did with the parts in my model could apply. Say you have a brake pipe. Its a cylinder with 16 sides. Cylinders are hard on the poly count. But since its a small part that would only be seen in detail out to about 10 meters, you could replace it at ten meters with a 6 sided box that is shaped to the near dimensions of the pipe. You still get what looks like a pipe from a distance, but without so much poly "overhead".

@Hack - I believe there may be a difference in how different modeling programs count polygons. In 3DCanvas, im pretty sure that a face is made up of two triangles, or polygons.

[SCLALINE]

im wondering if another issue developed when the model went through conversion

if i remember correct the model was started in Sketchup, then moved to 3dsMax 2012 then to 3dsMax 2011 for conversion, could it be the model is not as clean as it should, i noticed this on some of the seattle assets before and sketchup models i have exported - just throwing ideas

[eyein12]

im wondering if another issue developed when the model went through conversion

if i remember correct the model was started in Sketchup, then moved to 3dsMax 2012 then to 3dsMax 2011 for conversion, could it be the model is not as clean as it should, i noticed this on some of the seattle assets before and sketchup models i have exported - just throwing ideas

it only goes from sketchup to 3ds max 2011, i dont use 2012 anymore. And 2nd I cleaned the model up from what was 130K to 37K now and still same results. All my cylinders, for handrails tanks, etc. use 8 segments so I'm still baffled

[SCLALINE]

ok just troubleshooting :)
btw i sent a donation