independent brakes

[byelen]

Using only the "standard" locomotives on the various US routes, it appears to me that there is a very real problem with the independent (or "engine") brakes. A locomotive running "light" should have quicker response using the independent as opposed to the automatic brake. This is based on several thousand hours I have running various engines at a railroad museum (primarily EMD SW1500, Alco RS2, Alco 2600 Switcher, etc.). In Trainsim 2014 the independent brake appears to be sluggish, if it even works at all. Has this been observed by others, or is there possibly a problem in my installation?

- Bruce

[PapaXpress]

... A locomotive running "light" should have quicker response using the independent as opposed to the automatic brake.

Not sure how you can say this as the auto brake manipulate the same brake pads as the independent.

[byelen]

... A locomotive running "light" should have quicker response using the independent as opposed to the automatic brake.

Not sure how you can say this as the auto brake manipulate the same brake pads as the independent.

You're correct in pointing out that the same brake cylinders and shoes on the locomotive is used by both the independent (engine) and automatic (train) brakes. However, due to the mechanics of the systems, the independent brake will apply faster than the automatic brake (of course we're speaking of the locomotive only). This is because (and I'm very much oversimplifying things) when the engineer manipulates the independent valve, air pressure is directly applied to the locomotive's brake cylinders. When operating the automatic valve (even when the locomotive is running light) the air pressure in the train line is reduced, and air is introduced into the locomotive's brake cylinders in a similar fashion to how the triple valve operates on a standard passenger or freight car. If you were in the cab, viewing the brake gauges, you'd see the locomotive's brake cylinder pressure rising as soon as the independent valve is operated, where there will be a one or two second delay before seeing the pressure rise when operating the automatic valve.

Again, this is a gross oversimplification of a very complex system. You can find a diagram of the brake system on a locomotive (circa 1909) at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... iagram.jpg . This is the Westinghouse No. 6 ET system. Since that time, the systems have only become more and more complex.

- Bruce

[Ericmopar]

There are definitely problems with the loco brakes.
Some guys near me at the Nevada Southern, have told me the independent brake should also be able to stop something like four cars (passenger) without any problem on level ground. That doesn't work too well in the sim.
If you try to use the independent to hold a long train on a grade, with the automatic released, the train will usually start to backslide. I've been told that if the engine/s can start the load on the grade, then the independent will usually be able to hold the train in place as well. Not stop a heavy train, but at least hold it. Kinda like a parking brake on a car.
We have a lot of anomalies in this sim.

[buzz456]

There are a lot of anomalies in life.

[Chacal]

I haven't heard much about independent brakes for this sim. I don't think they are used a lot. I know I never use them. It is quite possible that they are flawed and nobody noticed or cared enough to report it.

RSC/DTG being a mostly Brit shop, it is possible that values that were put into early North-American engines, such as the SD40-2 and the F7, have been wrong from the start and everyone else is just using them as default values.

[HankySpanky]

Looks like we better not mess with byelen...lol

[PapaXpress]

@byelen

The short story is that they do work, but the author of the engine needs to setup the blueprint correctly. You will find that some models work nicely and some do not.

[byelen]

There are definitely problems with the loco brakes.
Some guys near me at the Nevada Southern, have told me the independent brake should also be able to stop something like four cars (passenger) without any problem on level ground. That doesn't work too well in the sim.
If you try to use the independent to hold a long train on a grade, with the automatic released, the train will usually start to backslide. I've been told that if the engine/s can start the load on the grade, then the independent will usually be able to hold the train in place as well. Not stop a heavy train, but at least hold it. Kinda like a parking brake on a car.
We have a lot of anomalies in this sim.

Your Nevada Southern friends are correct. The downside to controlling a short train with just the independent is the slack action. Everytime you apply the brake, all the slack will run in. With a 3 car museum train, we'd typically make a stop with the automatic brake, apply the independent, and release the automatic. If you pay attention at an Amtrak stop, you'll see that their engineers do that a lot as well.

Typically, in a yard operation where they're only shoving small cuts of cars around, they won't even bother hooking up the trainline, and control the entire movement with just the independent.

- Bruce

[BNSFdude]

When we run our 10 car trains at the OSCV, we use a min reduction and bail the independant. Then we use dynamic brakes until we come to a stop and drop it down to a 15-lb reduction for a full stop as the dynamics fade.

[Chacal]

That's the kind of engineer tips that are sorely missing for us mere players!
Keep them going.

[BNSFdude]

Unfortunately, there's no bail function in Railworks.

[awaken1977]

I rarely use independent brake, because it's very ineffective in the game. I tried it on SD40-2 and GP38-2 in some switching scenarios, and it takes too long to stop using it.

[byelen]

I rarely use independent brake, because it's very ineffective in the game. I tried it on SD40-2 and GP38-2 in some switching scenarios, and it takes too long to stop using it.

Which is exactly why this is an issue!