How to change couplers revisited

[ssbobz]

I've used Britkits Type E for a long time now but I'm looking to change some that it doesn't fix.

I've found these two threads:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8763
http://www.vnerrforums.com/rwforums/vie ... =59&t=2662

I'm still a bit intimidated by working in the bins, I've done it a little but I mostly I've used self-installing mods and I don't want to bork anything. If I understand what I've read you can change the bins to look for new coupler models or you can overwrite the default files with the new ones. Does one method or the other lend itself to changing multiple cars somewhat quickly?

If possible would someone be willing to take the time to walk me through a change? For example, one I want to try is putting the RRMods double shelf couplers onto the older tank cars I have.

[ssbobz]

Partial success by changing the bin to point at the new couplers ... it looks right when coupled, (Kuju repaint in front of RRmods)

20170424152129_1.jpg

But on the uncoupled ends I get this black bar. I figure that means something isn't being referenced properly and there is another step to finish the job.

20170424152137_1.jpg

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The uncoupled coupler is perhaps pointed inwards? Check the blueprints carefully and play a little with the orientation vectors.

[ssbobz]

Yep, I looked from underneath and there it is. Does the cars bin or the couplers bin control the location and orientation of the coupler model? It would seem that since something is different by 180 if the change can't be made on a car by car basis, fixing it on the Kuju would break it on the RRmods.

20170424161350_1.jpg

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Yep, I looked from underneath and there it is. Does the cars bin or the couplers bin control the location and orientation of the coupler model? It would seem that since something is different by 180 if the change can't be made on a car by car basis, fixing it on the Kuju would break it on the RRmods.

20170424161350_1.jpg

The car's bin controls the position and orientation of the couplers. Kuju's are native and probably oriented the right way, RRMods are imports, perhaps they were built on different vectors?

Just compare the values, change +1 into -1 on the x-axis on front and rear. After a few attempts you'll have it figured out.

RRmods couplers are good replacements? I see proper double shelf Hazmat couplers ...

[ssbobz]

Please tell me it's not one of these values:

Untitled.jpg

I've looked at a few web pages and the dev docs about making cars, couplings, etc but I still have no idea what the values represent. Why can't they be plain english?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Please tell me it's not one of these values:

Untitled.jpg

I've looked at a few web pages and the dev docs about making cars, couplings, etc but I still have no idea what the values represent. Why can't they be plain english?

That is a 4x4 matrix and you need to use a simple transformation. For a clear mathematical explanation you need to look up matrices transformation.

In practice, change all the +1 into -1 in the first 8 rows, these are the orientation vectors.

The bottom 4 rows define the position relative to the center (0,0,0) of the car.
You usually find front and rear couplers are exact mirror copies.

Play around with plus and minus 1 only on the relevant lines and re-compile the bin and put the car on some track. You'll quickly understand how the RRmods couplers differ from the Kuju ones in their native orientation.

[ssbobz]

Okay, that makes enough sense for me to feel alright about making more changes instead of giving up, I've still been keeping backups though. So far I've only put the double shelf couplers on one old tank model for testing but I've also replaced the default Kuju type E with another RRmods standard type E, it gives the same reversed uncoupled position. There is also a type F and bottom shelf E available from other rolling stock they have made.

Are there separate values in there for the coupled and uncoupled states, I would imagine so otherwise it seems they would be reversed all the time instead of only when uncoupled?

Thanks for all your help too

[ssbobz]

There is still a bit of tweaking to satisfy myself, a little higher and out just a tad, but I got it! I found out there were two values that needed to be reversed, the first and eleventh, otherwise the coupler was split in two and mismatched. The 14th and 15th values are the height and in/out distance. I hope the receiving point values are still okay. So off to testing.

20170424184915_1.jpg

Now as far as prototypical use, is this correct, DOT-112 and 114 require double shelf couplers and the DOT-111's did not originally so they may have type E, bottom shelf E, or double shelf depending on upgrades?

[Ericmopar]

I just use a copy of the entire chosen "Type-E" folder.
I add ".org" to the end of the original Type-E folder to keep it safe first, then I copy and paste the chosen Type-E folder into place.
If it's Dick Cowan's couplers, I've sometimes had to run the installer afterword, from within his Type-E folder after it's transplanted.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

There is still a bit of tweaking to satisfy myself, a little higher and out just a tad, but I got it! I found out there were two values that needed to be reversed, the first and eleventh, otherwise the coupler was split in two and mismatched. The 14th and 15th values are the height and in/out distance. I hope the receiving point values are still okay. So off to testing.



Now as far as prototypical use, is this correct, DOT-112 and 114 require double shelf couplers and the DOT-111's did not originally so they may have type E, bottom shelf E, or double shelf depending on upgrades?

There is a difference in what you see (the physical representation of the coupler) and what the game sees.

Those receiving and pivot points have nothing to do with the positioning of the physical coupler. Best leave those values as they are at the moment, or otherwise your cars might not couple at all and bounce off each other or start to overlap.
Many car builders have been struggling with couplers and the Wiki isn't very clear: http://railworkswiki.com/tiki-index.php ... e%20Manual
but there should be some good tutorials online here and at UKTS. I am sure to have seen some pass by in the last couple of years.

[ssbobz]

Didn't get to test last night after all but I realized something. I knew I'd have to make these changes to each tank car I added the couplers to and that I'd have to make adjustments for the default cars referenced to the Kuju file I replaced but it didn't click right away ... that's the same thing changing values in every cars bin if I want them to look correct when uncoupled. I'm not sure I want to go that route but if I did are these my options?


Change each one individually, by hand.
Delete all but the base asset for any given repaint, make the changes, reinstall the repaints so they copy the new bin.
Figure out how to batch file the changes.

And then backing them up/protecting them from reversion.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Yes, you have to change the couplers in every car's bin if you want them to show that type of coupler.

You reference the couplers on the hazmat tank cars you want to change to the double shelf type to the RRMods folder?
Then you only need to change the hazmat tank cars bin's, while the other boxcars, gondolas, hoppers and so on continue to use the Kuju couplers. (or any in place substitutes you might have downloaded, like those with working brake hosese)

It is unfortunate the RRMods have their vectors pointing the other way, perhaps someone more versed in shape file editing can turn them?
I believe you can swap the orientation vectors inside the couplers' bin, but then the textures will be wrapped the wrong way. Perhaps in a coupler this won't show too much to be a serious distraction?

Must look into that myself, since I like to have the cars and locomotives in my game to carry the correct couplers, something DTG doesn't care about.

[ssbobz]

Yeah. I've pointed that tanker to the RRmods folder and swapping more of those shouldn't be too bad, not all of the tanks need them and there's not too many overall.

I changed the default kuju to britkits, then to Michael Stephens' by renaming his file and replacing the britkits, now I've done the same with rrmods but due to the orientation issue I think I'll go back. The textures look great but it's not worth editing every car.

Changing the tanks and possibly a few others on a limited basis will work though.