How Do I Reduce The Number Of Groups In A Model

[TheKman]

OK, it dawned on me that my original thread for my problems with 3DC were with textures. Well, that I fixed.

That lead to me asking about the other problems I was having and was I think going off page a bit from my original problem.

So I've started this new thread in order to deal with my current problem. I think if I can get this one solved I can finally get a working shape.

I have too many groups in my model. I get that message saying its over 24 and it's causing the model to have too many nodes. The Blueprint Editor will not process the shape till this is fixed.

So two questions:

1. How to I determine how many groups my model has?

2.How do I reduce the number of groups so it'll end up being 24 or less??

I cant figure it out and either I'm typing in pee poor wording while doing searches on the web and YouTube on how to do this, or there is little or no info......

Specific tutorials for using 3DC or exporting into RW/TS addressing groups have been hard to find... In fact, I've found none.

Thanks


EDIT: I am curious...... Did all these groups come from something I did within 3DC or how the model was made in Sketchup??? If within SU, then the next step would be to rethink the design of the model.

[TheKman]

I figured out how to reduce the number of groups. Best I can tell, I made the model into just 1 group.

The Blueprint Editor processed the model. All the files were made with no errors this time.

The shape is in the sim. I can select it and place it, but I can't see it..... Tried raising it up in case it got buried in China with no luck as well.

[mrennie]

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EDIT: I am curious...... Did all these groups come from something I did within 3DC or how the model was made in Sketchup??? If within SU, then the next step would be to rethink the design of the model.

It has to be the fault of SU. The only times you ever need more than one group in 3DC is when the model needs to have some parts animated (in which case they are put into their own group so that they stay together when the group position is animated), or when the model has so many parts (hundreds) that it gets confusing and you need to group things just be able to see the list of parts more easily.

If I were you, I'd forget about SU and model everything in 3DC only. There used to be some tutorials of mine over at the old Engine Driver site, but they lost all the images when DTG moved them to their new http://www.train-simulator-site, and now that I search for them there, I discover that they've all been deleted (they probably did that because they images had been lost). It's a pity, because those tutorials took you through, step-by-step, making simple models from scratch.

[TheKman]

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If I were you, I'd forget about SU and model everything in 3DC only. There used to be some tutorials of mine over at the old Engine Driver site, but they lost all the images when DTG moved them to their new http://www.train-simulator-site, and now that I search for them there, I discover that they've all been deleted (they probably did that because they images had been lost). It's a pity, because those tutorials took you through, step-by-step, making simple models from scratch.

No way no how am I going to build using 3DC. It's been a real chore to figure the thing out to just export a model!!!

I've tried TSM & Blender as well. I just couldn't grasp it!!! I was up and drawing in SU a half hour after learning the basics. I spent weeks trying to figure out the programs on the others with very little to show for it.

I'm happy with SU though I understand it'll produce very high poly models compared to other 3D programs. If drawn correctly, you can cut down polygons on SU models.

I'll get it figured out. The hard way if need be. If I could be pointed to some detailed tutorials on prepping and exporting into RW/TS using 3dc 9.3, I'd probably get things to work.

[mrennie]

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If I were you, I'd forget about SU and model everything in 3DC only. There used to be some tutorials of mine over at the old Engine Driver site, but they lost all the images when DTG moved them to their new http://www.train-simulator-site, and now that I search for them there, I discover that they've all been deleted (they probably did that because they images had been lost). It's a pity, because those tutorials took you through, step-by-step, making simple models from scratch.

No way no how am I going to build using 3DC. It's been a real chore to figure the thing out to just export a model!!!

I've tried TSM & Blender as well. I just couldn't grasp it!!! I was up and drawing in SU a half hour after learning the basics. I spent weeks trying to figure out the programs on the others with very little to show for it.

I'm happy with SU though I understand it'll produce very high poly models compared to other 3D programs. If drawn correctly, you can cut down polygons on SU models.

I'll get it figured out. The hard way if need be. If I could be pointed to some detailed tutorials on prepping and exporting into RW/TS using 3dc 9.3, I'd probably get things to work.

It's not as hard as you think. Just remember that you don't export directly from 3DC to the sim. You export the 3DC model into the format that the Blueprint Editor (which is really part of the "Asset Editor") understands. Then you make a blueprint that references your exported file (the .igs file) and you export that into the sim.

[TheKman]

It's not as hard as you think. Just remember that you don't export directly from 3DC to the sim. You export the 3DC model into the format that the Blueprint Editor (which is really part of the "Asset Editor") understands. Then you make a blueprint that references your exported file (the .igs file) and you export that into the sim.[/quote]

All of this I understand. It's in the sim, you just can't see it. Using 3DC to export the model into a .igs for the Blueprint Editor is no issue. Drawing in 3DC is what I'm no good at.

Somewhere along the line in SU, 3DC, or making the Blueprint I goofed. It could be a combo of errors in all 3 that's preventing the model from being seen.

[TheKman]

As I said,somewhere along the line the model is still messed up.... I went from making the model (A tunnel portal) in SU 2025. Exported into a.obj

Next I used 3DC and further prepped the model (I can expain what I did in 3DC if it helps) then exported into the .igs format needed by the blueprint editor.

Fired up the blueprint editor and filled in (I think...) all the required fields. Saved it then exported.

I think the file tree structure for the file in the sim is correct, but honestly I'm not sure...

From there I fired up the sim, clicked on my provider folder for the shape. Saved.

After that Harry Houdini came to play!!!!

[mrennie]

There's a nice shortcut to making a scenery blueprint, where you don't have to fill in anything at all. Launch the blueprint editor and look for your model's IGS file in the editor's file explorer window. Right-click on it and in the pop-up menu select "Create scenery blueprint". It'll fill in everything you need. To see what the item will look like, press F8 or click the "Preview" button (the green triangle in the row of icons at the top). After a few seconds, if all is ok with the igs file and the textures, the preview window will appear with a 3D rendering.

By the way, did you place the texture files (the .ace files) in the texture folder immediately below where you put the igs file?

[JerryC]

Just FYI, 256 nodes - i.e. Shapes - is the limit of what the Blueprint Editor can process in a model. We are running up against this issue with the current models where every switch and light is modelled. To get it past the Editor, i'm having to model all of the animated parts as the Cab, and every other surface as a child object of the cab. We've still hit the wall, and that means that some controls or animated parts wont be modelled.

As for 3DCrafter, dump it. It has no future in modelling for DTG projects. Believe it or not, Blender is actually easier to use than 3DC and much more powerful. If you know how to model in 3DCrafter, the hardest thing will be learning the XYZ parametera. Once you are used to that you will be amazed at what you can do.

[TheKman]

There's a nice shortcut to making a scenery blueprint, where you don't have to fill in anything at all. Launch the blueprint editor and look for your model's IGS file in the editor's file explorer window. Right-click on it and in the pop-up menu select "Create scenery blueprint". It'll fill in everything you need. To see what the item will look like, press F8 or click the "Preview" button (the green triangle in the row of icons at the top). After a few seconds, if all is ok with the igs file and the textures, the preview window will appear with a 3D rendering.

By the way, did you place the texture files (the .ace files) in the texture folder immediately below where you put the igs file?

Thanks for the info on the Blueprint shorcut. I'll try that.

And NO!!! I didn't place the texture folder immedeiately below where the .igs is. That was not mentioned in the very few tutiorials I found. I'll try that as well.

I also did more reading online last night and some of it maybe that files & file folders maybe named wrong and also in the wrong places or the wrong order.

Just FYI, 256 nodes - i.e. Shapes - is the limit of what the Blueprint Editor can process in a model. We are running up against this issue with the current models where every switch and light is modelled. To get it past the Editor, i'm having to model all of the animated parts as the Cab, and every other surface as a child object of the cab. We've still hit the wall, and that means that some controls or animated parts wont be modelled.

As for 3DCrafter, dump it. It has no future in modelling for DTG projects. Believe it or not, Blender is actually easier to use than 3DC and much more powerful. If you know how to model in 3DCrafter, the hardest thing will be learning the XYZ parametera. Once you are used to that you will be amazed at what you can do.

I believe I'm under 256 nodes but I have no idea how to verify that.... First attempts at exporting into the sim from the Blueprint Editor came back with a error messages saying the .GeoPcDx had too many nodes.

Blender....... I don't like that one any better than 3DC. I'm sold on using SU so just call me head srtong!!! It's like the guy who buys old Cadillacs time after time after time and then suddenly is told he needs to switch to something else in order to get better gas millage.

[mrennie]

As for 3DCrafter, dump it. It has no future in modelling for DTG projects. Believe it or not, Blender is actually easier to use than 3DC and much more powerful. If you know how to model in 3DCrafter, the hardest thing will be learning the XYZ parametera. Once you are used to that you will be amazed at what you can do.

I'm getting along just fine with 3DCrafter Pro 9.2.2. and 9.3, especially as 9.3 now does ambient occlusion (shadow-baking). I tried Blender and soon thought I was wasting time when I could be getting on with making more parts in 3DC. Besides, I've got a lot of bits and pieces done in 3DC that I can copy and paste (and modify) easily, I can't see the need anymore to switch to something else.

[Bananarama]

It's like the guy who buys old Cadillacs time after time after time and then suddenly is told he needs to switch to something else in order to get better gas millage.

Closer analogy would be using a screwdriver to hammer a nail. It can be done, but hardly worth the effort and frustration. SU has its place, but it's not with current or future games.

[TheKman]

There's a nice shortcut to making a scenery blueprint, where you don't have to fill in anything at all. Launch the blueprint editor and look for your model's IGS file in the editor's file explorer window. Right-click on it and in the pop-up menu select "Create scenery blueprint". It'll fill in everything you need. To see what the item will look like, press F8 or click the "Preview" button (the green triangle in the row of icons at the top). After a few seconds, if all is ok with the igs file and the textures, the preview window will appear with a 3D rendering.

By the way, did you place the texture files (the .ace files) in the texture folder immediately below where you put the igs file?

OK, I did all these steps and I still can't see the model in the Route Editor.

Pics enclosed of what I'm dealing with.

Pic #4 Is the file tree breakdown within the Blueprint Editor.

Sorry it didn't show them 1-4.

[mrennie]

OK, I did all these steps and I still can't see the model in the Route Editor.

The textures (.ace files) have to be in the textures folder itself, not a sub-folder inside textures.

[TheKman]

OK, I did all these steps and I still can't see the model in the Route Editor.

The textures (.ace files) have to be in the textures folder itself, not a sub-folder inside textures.

OK, I did this step, exported it again, same thing. I can't see it.