Tehachapi Pass Beta Available

[Bananarama]

v1.10.12.15 update is now available for download. :)

[ColoradoRailfan]

v1.10.12.15 update is now available for download. :)

Will any of the updates later will have Crossing signals and wayside signal fixes?

[Bananarama]

Yes, of course.

[ex-railwayman]

Marc, may I ask you a silly question, please? This pack is cumulative, in 3/4 month's time it'll be 400mb possibly, are you going to split this pack up over time, say every 3 months, then start a new one, of course, nobody knows how long it's going to take to finish the route completely, but, if you refresh the pack every week, it's going to be massive at the end of it.

Cheerz. Steve.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

400 MB isn't much in the light of recent DTG routes and asset packs weighing in at over 1.2 GB. The weekly updates are cumulative mostly, but I expect at some point Marc will compile a new master pack and start anew from there.

Tehachapi Pass Mojave - Edison is mostly high desert scenery, with few and sparse buildings. I don't think that new or expanded scenery along the route will add up to many 100's of extra megabytes.
Perhaps more rocks and greenery can be put down still but these are instances of existing assets, so don't add up extra in the vertex buffers.

Edison-Magunden-Bakersfield is still completely barren, a fully scenicked and detailed Bakersfield could add up a 100 - 200 MB at most with clever re-use of assets, i.e. using all four sides of a building detailed differently you get 4 buildings for the weight of one.

Marc said he had no plans to extend to route further past the Kern River towards San Lauren west of Bakersfield were all the industries are. A missed chance, for that would add lots of switching possibilities and freight car destinations, plus the chance to model a SP Oil Cans type of loading facility.

We'll have to wait and see how the route evolves, first the present route, then we can talk about eventual expansions. Towards Barstow will add little operational value, there is only Boron and Edwards. Towards Palmdale are a couple more industrial sidings and spurs.

How about scenarios? Mostly BNSF and UP through trains, non stop over the Pass, through the Loop etc.? Or UP serving the Lone Pine Branch? Those spurs along the single track portion are probably only used for MoW and setting out of bad order cars?

I assume Edison and Magunden are switched out of Bakersfield and back, but by whom? UP or BNSF?

There are still some issues with signalling and tracks.bin, notably tracks speeds, turnout angles/speed restriction and service direction at South Mojave. These need to be cleared first before any substantial scenario writing can be done.

[Bananarama]

The signal issue was just solved today - at least it appears to be functioning correctly now.

As for track speeds, restrictions and turnout angles, what is it that I should be looking at? As far s I can tell, I used the correct turnout numbers for a given section. The scenario issue with the BNSF coming into Mojave could be solved with scenario waypoints (or whatever they're called) to force AI through the correct turnout.

Edison and Magunden are swithed by the San Joaquin RR. They also control what's left of the Buttonwillow branch that once ran to Taft.

The only extension that I may consider is the line to Oil City (Oildale), North of Bakersifeld. While this area was fairly active in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, it's a mere shadow of its former self these days. The line only extends a mile or so past the UP mainline and sees very little traffic. It would be more appropriate had the route been set firmly in the SP era, and coupled with the line to Taft (long since closed), you would have your oil train to play with, plus the opportunity to operate there (and on the Arvin branch) with Santa Fe, as the SP and ATSF traded every other year.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The signal issue was just solved today - at least it appears to be functioning correctly now.

As for track speeds, restrictions and turnout angles, what is it that I should be looking at? As far s I can tell, I used the correct turnout numbers for a given section. The scenario issue with the BNSF coming into Mojave could be solved with scenario waypoints (or whatever they're called) to force AI through the correct turnout.

Edison and Magunden are swithed by the San Joaquin RR. They also control what's left of the Buttonwillow branch that once ran to Taft.

The only extension that I may consider is the line to Oil City (Oildale), North of Bakersifeld. While this area was fairly active in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, it's a mere shadow of its former self these days. The line only extends a mile or so past the UP mainline and sees very little traffic. It would be more appropriate had the route been set firmly in the SP era, and coupled with the line to Taft (long since closed), you would have your oil train to play with, plus the opportunity to operate there (and on the Arvin branch) with Santa Fe, as the SP and ATSF traded every other year.

Thanks, Marc.

The South Mojave BNSF junction still bothers me. Both BNSF and UP timetables I have differ a little as to what speed is allowed over what crossover/junction.
I have forced the use of the northern "high speed" crossover and junction coming off #1 track to the BNSF, and I presume UP through trains also use the northern high speed crossover on their way to Palmdale. UP 's LA timetable # 4 excerpts (2010) lists the "dual control switches and turnouts" at CPSP381 as 15 Mph, and the "Short BNSF connection" as 10 Mph.
BNSF LA and CA timetable #3 (2008) lists the crossovers as the same speed, so we can assume there are correct. I cannot find the actual speed of the BNSF junction turnout, the approach track is MP 40 MpH, I must assume from section 1(D) that the "Mojave yard entry" is meant, at MP 814.7 which is 25 MpH. So that northern BNSF junction turnout could be leaner than the present layout to reflect its 25 MpH use.
BNSF through trains on their way to Bakersfield run through South Mojave - Mojave on track 2 at 25 MpH.When entering the yard at South Mojave the BNSF must reduce to 10 MpH using the "short connection". UP from Colton can enter Mojave yard at 15 MpH.
Not much of difference in track geometry and turnout angle also, and since Google Earth imagery appears to be distorted, only a proper track will reveal the actual turnout angle.
Only of practical importance when BNSF from Barstow and UP from Colton are used only as starting points for northbound trains.
Parallel motion of northbound BNSF and southbound UP should be possible at South Mojave, but here the characteristics of AI spoil the impression, as it immediately accelerates to track speed once past the crossovers, ending up with the last cars flying by at 55 or 70 MpH over that 15 MpH crossover.

CPSP381 Mojave main track 1 stopping in front of the 3 head signal should be the logical end point of southbound through trains coming down from Tehachapi. Any further there are no destinations other than the portals. Some UP locals might end in Mojave yard or serve Fleta. Are those tank farms there connected to Edwards AFB, and hence store aircraft fuel?

Using destination markers to force a routing in QD is ugly, for it shows them in the destination selection screens. A proper set of track rules that forces the routing would be better, but can that be achieved in the present game?

With the Bakersfield end still barren and undeveloped, I have no idea how to set up destinations there yet.

San Joaquin Valley serving the local Bakersfield industries also. Do we have repaints for that railroad?

Yes, Marc, please consider a loading point for the Oil Cans. I gather from prototype information there was no huge tank park or such at the loading point(s), so the facility was quite inconspicuous probably and hence easier to model. When this 2006/2008 era route is finished, one can always backdate it to ATSF/SP days and add more track and industries.
However, without characteristic ATSF and SP cabooses available, nobody will fall for the illusion.

Also, Google Earth shows an engine facility and turntable, plus the imprint of another turntable just above Kern Jct. whose were they?
I don't know how to imbed Google Earth imagery, so here is a saved marker file.

[gtrtroger]

My research shows that the Mojave Local is called at 8, 12, 14 and 2000hrs; some days at all four times, and other days may be once or twice. Symbols: LMJOC, LOCMJ, LMJLP, LlPMJ, LOP23, LOP82, LOP92; may be others; and that doesn't include thru symbols that would come out the BNSF Barstow Portal for 3 unit coal trains from Skyline Mine in Utah to both Trona Chemical and CalPortland and empty returns. There is also the turns to Tehachapi and Monolith out of Mojave Yard. And don't forget AV fuel for Mojave Airport. Don't let the town of Mojave fool you....there's plenty happening there besides UP and BNSF thru traffic.

Edwards off the BNSF is only called when either they are testing rocket engines (rocket fuel unit train out of Arizona) or to supply their own tanks (aviation fuel) located on the base - everything else is delivered by truck.

The tank farm south of Mojave is a Petroleum Distibution point not related to Edwards at all, and Niklor is at the end of that spur.

At the other end, all three - UP, BNSF and SJVR provide local service the Edison Area.....not just SJVR, and not just the Arvin Sub, though the amount of traffic these days is not what it used to be - competition with trucking companies being what it is. There is regular refrigerator car traffic out of the BNSF yard to all the cold storage facilities in the area as well.

I have a one day listing that shows as many as 60 trains between the two northern portals (BNSF and UP) and the southern portals (BNSF and UP). More than enough to keep anybody happy.

I believe ex-railwaymans concern was file size of an eventual completed route. I personally don't care about the size. It can't/won't be any bigger than any DLC routes like NYNH or NJ which are object pigs compared to TP. If you can download them, you'll be ok with this.

P.S. Hack is right. Don't get so wrapped up in south switches....it will work itself out before finalization. Scenario writers have an uncanny ability to improvise any situation and make it work.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

My research shows that the Mojave Local is called at 8, 12, 14 and 2000hrs; some days at all four times, and other days may be once or twice. Symbols: LMJOC, LOCMJ, LMJLP, LlPMJ, LOP23, LOP82, LOP92; may be others; and that doesn't include thru symbols that would come out the BNSF Barstow Portal for 3 unit coal trains from Skyline Mine in Utah to both Trona Chemical and CalPortland and empty returns. There is also the turns to Tehachapi and Monolith out of Mojave Yard. And don't forget AV fuel for Mojave Airport. Don't let the town of Mojave fool you....there's plenty happening there besides UP and BNSF thru traffic.

Edwards off the BNSF is only called when either they are testing rocket engines (rocket fuel unit train out of Arizona) or to supply their own tanks (aviation fuel) located on the base - everything else is delivered by truck.

The tank farm south of Mojave is a Petroleum Distibution point not related to Edwards at all, and Niklor is at the end of that spur.

At the other end, all three - UP, BNSF and SJVR provide local service the Edison Area.....not just SJVR, and not just the Arvin Sub, though the amount of traffic these days is not what it used to be - competition with trucking companies being what it is. There is regular refrigerator car traffic out of the BNSF yard to all the cold storage facilities in the area as well.

I have a one day listing that shows as many as 60 trains between the two northern portals (BNSF and UP) and the southern portals (BNSF and UP). More than enough to keep anybody happy.

I believe ex-railwaymans concern was file size of an eventual completed route. I personally don't care about the size. It can't/won't be any bigger than any DLC routes like NYNH or NJ which are object pigs compared to TP. If you can download them, you'll be ok with this.

P.S. Hack is right. Don't get so wrapped up in south switches....it will work itself out before finalization. Scenario writers have an uncanny ability to improvise any situation and make it work.

Thanks for this info on local trains serving Mojave. it should allow for some variation in scenarios and give those fond of switching something to look forward to.

Can trains be spawned from portals and how? Would like to learn that trick myself.

Those unit coal trains, how long/heavy are they and what type of car? When there are no rotary dumpers at either the chemical or the cement plant, bottom discharge hoppers must be used. At present, both Sherman Hill for UP stock and Marias Pass for BNSF only provide coal gondolas. If one wants to keep DLC requirements at a minimum, compromised must be made.

Rocket fuel unit tank trains, now that is some Hazmat probably: explosive, corrosive, carcinogenous when they contain hypergolic rocket fuel. Do they come down over the Pass or up from the south using UP's Yuma sub?

The layout at South Mojave CPSP381: at present the game "prefers" the "BNSF short connection" both directions for reasons I don't understand. In my continuing attempts to create simple, nice and interesting QD scenarios I can force the AI trains to use the high speed crossovers by means of scenario specific destination markers. I will not use these in the actual player train's path for they show up in the destination list.

With the signalling most likely sorted for now, after the coming update I can check over CPSP381 again to see if UP from Colton is still forced onto track #1 running against the current up to Warren X-over. BNSF from Colton uses the proper #2 track, and UP did that also before the September 14 changes to tracks.bin. Hopefully Marc can get that sorted soon.
Like I explained in my previous posting above, only the head end of AI trains obey the speed limit over the turnouts and crossovers. For realistic looking scenarios having AI flying through the speed limits is best avoided.

Should I upload my revised QD and AI trains collection again for others to try and test?

[gtrtroger]

"Can trains be spawned from portals and how? Would like to learn that trick myself."

> Yes....there are several YouTube videos that discuss this capability...they are on scenario building. You'll have to look around as I don't remember their names.

"Those unit coal trains, how long/heavy are they and what type of car? When there are no rotary dumpers at either the chemical or the cement plant, bottom discharge hoppers must be used. At present, both Sherman Hill for UP stock and Marias Pass for BNSF only provide coal gondolas. If one wants to keep DLC requirements at a minimum, compromised must be made."

> The coal comes out of Skyline Mine on Soldier Summit (twist of fate..lol) in bottom dumpers. 70-100 cars in length. It's delivered to the UP yard at Provo, then ships via UP through Yermo, then via Barstow to Mojave. At Mojave, the train is spilt between the two locations and delivered by locals. Both the Trona and CalPortland locations have bottom dump unloaders. Both locations use coal-fired kilns for drying ingedients.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

> The coal comes out of Skyline Mine on Soldier Summit (twist of fate..lol) in bottom dumpers. 70-100 cars in length. It's delivered to the UP yard at Provo, then ships via UP through Yermo, then via Barstow to Mojave. At Mojave, the train is spilt between the two locations and delivered by locals. Both the Trona and CalPortland locations have bottom dump unloaders. Both locations use coal-fired kilns for drying ingedients.

Soldier Summit, right? So with some artistic license we can run DRGW power along with SP and ATSF in an earlier incarnation of the route.

Does UP have trackage rights between Barstow and Mojave or will BNSF handle that segment and hence enter the Mojave yard? Handing over to UP and Trona RR for final delivery?
The UP timetable I mentioned above doesn't list any trackage rights, that does mean the coal train travels over Cajon Pass to West Colton and up to Mojave over the Palmdale Cutoff, essentially doubling back on itself?

All of Mojave's yard tracks are over 5000 feet, so accepting a 100 car train of 50' hoppers shouldn't be a problem.

[Bananarama]

only the head end of AI trains obey the speed limit over the turnouts and crossovers.

Don't AI trains follow track speed? It's 23mph through the yard, and 35mph until well past Warren.

[gtrtroger]

UP trackage rights - yes. Very interesting subject when you look at the ATSF/SF/SP/LASL to BNSF/UP history in the area.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

only the head end of AI trains obey the speed limit over the turnouts and crossovers.

Don't AI trains follow track speed? It's 23mph through the yard, and 35mph until well past Warren.

I was talking about South Mojave mostly. I have a QD scenario that has a UP train in front of CPSP381 facing northbound on the UP main from Colton.
There is this southbound BNSF train at CPSP381 stopped on #1 main in front of the three head signal, wanting to proceed eastbound towards Barstow on the BNSF.
I have forced its path to use the northern high speed (15 MpH only) crossover to #2 main, immediately followed by the 25 MpH turnout to BNSF trackage.

From the cab of the waiting UP train, I can watch the BNSF depart and enter the crossover etc. Once the lead engines have passed the US14 overpass, they start to accelerate.
When the train is long, the final cars whizz by at track speed, flying through those severely restricted crossover, unrealistic.

However, I don't think we can do much about it, if my observation of only the head end of AI trains obeying the speed limits is true. One could extend the 15 Mph restriction a mile or so towards the Barstow exit portal, but that will perhaps lead to unneccessary speeding penalties as the allowed speed on approach of the BNSF signal at MP 814.7 is 40 MpH westbound and the turnout onto #2 main northbound towards Tehachapi is 25 MpH? Can speed limits be imposed directionally?
Or one could do without the various speed limits and declare the whole of South Mojave junction and yard entry 15 MpH when diverging through any of the turnouts?

Given the accuracy and fidelity of this route, I though prototype operations would also be an huge plus, using the realistic braking of the TS2015 SH UP locomotives and properly weighted trains. But if the game engine doesn't allow it, practical compromises must be made.

From experience I can tell it is a challenge to bring a loaded double stack train of 16 G-Trax MaxiStack sets at 300 tons each and 8 ES44AC's in 3-3-2 configuration safely over the pass. Even with that number of dynamic brake axles and the improved physics from the RWA file store, is is very difficult to control track speed at a steady 20-23 Mph over the Tehachapi - Caliente part of the route without the use of air. To make traction more interesting, I have changed the dry adhesion to 25% comparable to a prototype ES44, so the use of sand is required to get underway, climb the grade or any dynamic braking over the adhesion limit. Once air is on the cars, it has to remain on for the entire run downhill, unless the train has to be stopped for whatever reason. Handbrakes must be applied while the train line is pumped up and the aux reservoirs must be recharged to 100% before the journey can commence. A sure delay of 20 minutes or more in the prototype. The high TOB figure of the MaxiStacks is a hindrance, for their individual braking effort is only like 66% of the default SH/MP Thrall double stack car under the same load.

[Bananarama]

However, I don't think we can do much about it, if my observation of only the head end of AI trains obeying the speed limits is true.

If this is the case, then it should be relatively easy for me to deviate from the prototype and adjust the southbound speeds (or place some sort of speed restriction) so that trains don't bullwhip the turnouts in the yard.